Submitted by Pierre_Admin on 2010/02/09 13:38

Comments

Thanks, Pierre. Quite a set of changes!

My install is coming up with bullets in the Item column, despite having Ecco-style bullets set off in Options. Only the bullets, not the diagonal arrows. Was this an intentional and permanent change? They're useful for seeing the subitem hierarchy, but I don't see a toggle.

Rgds
Jerome
 
(stepping out...replies delayed)

Pierre_Admin

2010/02/09 14:45

In reply to by JJSlote

Yes, there are a few changes to the visuals
  • Ecco-style and non Ecco-style bullets now behave the same way. They only differ in the visuals
  • Check marks have changed
  • Cursors now reflect when you can click-drag to select multiple items
Also, I forgot to mention this new feature:
  • Tools>>Options>>General>>Grid, now has the option to expand on single-click (or double-click). If on double-click, drag-drop is initiated by dragging the bullets [edit] added to the original post.

Armando

2010/02/09 16:39

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

Thanks for all that.
 
I think you forgot to mention More questions on auto-assignment rules :
 
[quote]
2- Sometimes, even if the value in a field is not really modified (i.e.  a VB script replaces the field value by itself) and has the auto-assignment "M:" switch, it will trigger its auto assignment equations.
[/quote]
 
I didn't test anything yet, but I will. And if that was effectively fixed that means that I'll have to rethink certain scripts. Maybe others are in that situation too and they should know that something changed behind the hood.
 
===
 
more later.

Al

2010/02/10 23:06

In reply to by Armando

My two cents, the Ecco bullets are still much nicer looking. So please don't lose the Ecco bullets.

Armando

2010/02/09 17:19

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

[quote=Pierre_Admin]
Yes, there are a few changes to the visuals
  • Ecco-style and non Ecco-style bullets now behave the same way. They only differ in the visuals
  • Check marks have changed
  • Cursors now reflect when you can click-drag to select multiple items
Also, I forgot to mention this new feature:
  • Tools>>Options>>General>>Grid, now has the option to expand on single-click (or double-click). If on double-click, drag-drop is initiated by dragging the bullets [edit] added to the original post.
[/quote]
 
 
Hi Pierre,
 
First comments.
 
About the "visuals" :
 
1- I think the previous "bullet" way was more graphically coherent.
 
IMO, the new way lacks uniformity (the mix between round bullets and arrows).
If we're going to use bullets, I think they should be use only for those items with no ssub items at all, and not for those expanded items.
 
2- I have to say that I don't like the new "check marks" -- the previous ones were perfectly ok with me, even if a bit small.
 
The big problem with the new ones is that it's harder (for me) to rapidly see if it's a "checked" check box, or if it's one of my icons. And going from an empty square to a big green check mark seems a bit awkward to me.
 
I think that check boxes should remain checkboxes all the way... But let's heat what others have to say.
 
====
 
I'll test some more in an hour or two.
 
Thanks.
 
 
[EDIT : I like the new drad&drop using the bullets feature + double clicking  (accessible in in the options) though. Thanks for implementing that.]

Pierre_Admin

2010/02/09 17:44

In reply to by Armando

[quote]1- I think the previous "bullet" way was more graphically coherent.
 
IMO, the new way lacks uniformity (the mix between round bullets and arrows).
If we're going to use bullets, I think they should be use only for those items with no ssub items at all, and not for those expanded items.[/quote]
To enable drag-drop using bullets, I need to have a bullet on each item. The grid control supports only 2 images for expand buttons, this leaves a single one which must be used for when the item is collapsed.
 
Not much I can do. I never liked the Vista style expanded button (triangle pointing down) and found it too similar to the collapsed button. This implementation has the advantages of clearly identifying items that have collapsed sub-items.
 

Tom

2010/02/09 17:59

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

[quote=Pierre_Admin]
[quote]1- I think the previous "bullet" way was more graphically coherent.
 
IMO, the new way lacks uniformity (the mix between round bullets and arrows).
If we're going to use bullets, I think they should be use only for those items with no ssub items at all, and not for those expanded items.[/quote]
To enable drag-drop using bullets, I need to have a bullet on each item. The grid control supports only 2 images for expand buttons, this leaves a single one which must be used for when the item is collapsed.
 
Not much I can do. I never liked the Vista style expanded button (triangle pointing down) and found it too similar to the collapsed button. This implementation has the advantages of clearly identifying items that have collapsed sub-items.
[/quote]
 
I like the new bullets (but I think you could now chuck the older ecco bullets - I mean replace them with these ones)
& agree with "I never liked the ... expanded button (triangle pointing down) and found it too similar to the collapsed button"

Armando

2010/02/09 19:16

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

Ok. If everybody think that the new bullet set is better, let's see how it goes. I can certainly live with it -- and I never really liked the "triangle pointing down either", in terms of functionality (aesthetically though, it's probably better).

JJSlote

2010/02/09 19:40

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

Hi Pierre

The bullet scheme does make it easier to get a positive "grip" on an item for drag and drop. To extend the effect, would it be worthwhile to change the cursor when it's hovering over the items' drag points? A hook, or loop, or pliers, for example. Particularly as there will be two different modes for the drag, based on an Options setting. Presently, the user is still not certain of the function until he mouses down.

Jerome

Armando

2010/02/10 00:33

In reply to by JJSlote

[quote=JJSlote]
Hi Pierre

The bullet scheme does make it easier to get a positive "grip" on an item for drag and drop. To extend the effect, would it be worthwhile to change the cursor when it's hovering over the items' drag points? A hook, or loop, or pliers, for example. Particularly as there will be two different modes for the drag, based on an Options setting. Presently, the user is still not certain of the function until he mouses down.

Jerome
[/quote]
 
 
1- I like this idea.
 
==================
 
2- Pierre : about the bullets.
 
Before, when an item didn't have any children (sub items), it didn't have a bullet. Now it does. Is there a reason for that ? Isn't it easier to see 1- what's expandable 2- or what's expanded when only these two cases have bullets ?
 
For me it's easier... :)
 
anyways, as you suggested elsewhere, maybe all of these could be optional.

KeithB

2010/02/09 17:56

In reply to by Armando

[quote=Armando]
 
The big problem with the new ones is that it's harder (for me) to rapidly see if it's a "checked" check box, or if it's one of my icons. And going from an empty square to a big green check mark seems a bit awkward to me.
 
[/quote]
 
I don't mind the look of the checkmarks, but is the color only green? I have a color blindness in the red-green area, and I can't really tell what color it is.

Armando

2010/02/09 19:09

In reply to by KeithB

It depends on how many icons a user uses, I guess.
 
To me, the check mark now looks too much like an icon from the IQ icon collection.
 
As I said, more coherent as it was : the box is empty at first, and it can be cheked. Now there is a box that disappears and is replaced by a check mark... Graphic artists here would certainly agree that it's not the best choice.
 
But mainly, the question is : Did the "old checked box" create problems ? If not, why change it... :)

Tom

2010/02/09 18:05

In reply to by Armando

[quote=Armando]

2- I have to say that I don't like the new "check marks" -- the previous ones were perfectly ok with me, even if a bit small.
 
The big problem with the new ones is that it's harder (for me) to rapidly see if it's a "checked" check box, or if it's one of my icons. And going from an empty square to a big green check mark seems a bit awkward to me.
 
I think that check boxes should remain checkboxes all the way... But let's heat what others have to say. [/quote]
 
I think I'd prefer older way as well
or
if staying with this way: I think reducing the size of the Tick & making it darker would help

jsolka

2010/02/10 17:32

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

One of my grids now behaves differently  in full hierarchy (I had all the sub-items meet the grid source). In order to see it as it used to be, I need to switch to hierarchy, not full hierarchy. I guess it is okay, except I don't know why it happened?
 
Thanks
Jay

jsolka

2010/02/10 17:47

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

I'll try to do it tomorrow. BTW -- thanks Pierre, and congrats.
I have another issue that I have complained in the previous version that is still there -- the hyperlink dialogue box doesn't stay on the last folder.
 
Take care,
Jay

Pierre_Admin

2010/02/10 17:49

In reply to by jsolka

> the hyperlink dialogue box doesn't stay on the last folder.
 
Can you provide detailed steps as I fixed what I thought was the problem...