Submitted by Jon on 2011/02/11 09:14
The subject says it all. I can CTRL+drag to create items with multiple parents, but this does not work using copy/paste. I am using copy xml (either selection or selection and subs) and choosing link when pasting. What am I doing wrong?
 
I need this because dragging across a large outline is tedious.
 
Jon

Comments

Hi Jon, it should be working -- it works perfectly here. Can you describe the steps ? Maybe you're not pasting at the right level ? Or you're pasting them as TLI ?

Jon

2011/02/11 11:05

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Sure.
 
1. Select the item.
2. Right click. Select copy.
3. Select copy as XML (I have tried both single item XML copy and the choice to include sub items)
4. Select the item to paste under (not TLI)
5. Right click. Select paste as link.
 
Nothing happens here.
 
Jon

Armando

2011/02/11 11:39

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I tried several pasting as "links" and it always works. I can only see 2 (or 3) related things happening : 1- IQ does it job, but the "linked" items are filtered out (items don't meet filter and source). If you read the description in the copy/paste dialog, it says "Paste under the current parent ... " Which means that : a- if the focused item doesn't have a parent, it will try to "add" the item as a TLI (which in fact, means that IQ will add the necessary minimal data for it to meet the current grid source). If the source isn't simple (one field, or fields with "AND" operator), the results can be unpredictable as IQ can't know what filters you have on, and the item might not even appear as TLI even if it partially meets the source. b- if the focused item has a parent, it will link the pasted items to that parent-item. But, if the filter is set to some specific sub-item filterning, it could be that the newly pasted items don't meet the criteria and... Won't appear. 2- IQ tries to do its job but can't In the worst cases (e.g. : linking to a grid with no source, but just a filter setting), the items won't be "assigned" any additional fields and won't be shown in the grid as they can't meet the filter. That said... There could be a bug, and I just can't reproduce it. Another way to link items to another item is to 1- select all items 2- right click -> click on "Tag items" 3- right click on item which is going to be the new (added) parent 4- click on "add tagged items as sub-items" This is easy and should work too.

Jon

2011/02/11 12:08

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Thank you for testing Armando. No, it does not work here, even on a new sample database without filters (the Welcome grid). I considered and eliminated source and filters as a problem - I can't figure why it doesn't work. I tried looking for the pasted item in the scratch grid too. All items is the source, and it simply is not there. Pasting as a new item works as expected, so if there was a source or filter problem, I would expect that the pasted item (as new) would not be displayed either.
 
Jon

Armando

2011/02/11 12:22

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[quote=Jon]
I tried looking for the pasted item in the scratch grid too. All items is the source, and it simply is not there. Pasting as a new item works as expected, so if there was a source or filter problem, I would expect that the pasted item (as new) would not be displayed either.
 
Jon
[/quote] Just to make things clear : looking for items you pasted as links in the scratch grid can't be successful. The word "link" isn't the proper word, which creates more confusion. When you paste as "links", IQ doesn't create new item which are links, rather it links these items to other parents/grids. So even if you paste as links 1000 times under 1000 different parents, you won't see 1000 new items in the scratch grid. However, if you look in the properties pane for these items, you'll see that they might now have 1000 parents, or some extra fields "checked" OR with other data. The only way to see if the "pasting as link" succeeded, is to check if the items have new parents in the properties pane, or if some new extra fields have been assigned. Try this, in a sample DB 1- Select the "InfoQube" item in the welcome grid. 2- ctrl+shift+C : copy as XML (selected items -- or selected items and its sub items... It won't make any difference here as it's the same item which we'll link to another item-parent) 3- Focus on "User Manual" 4- Paste selecting "under the current parent as Links to existing items" (note that "current parent" is important here as it doesn't paste "bellow", but... Above... at the same level [edit : 2011 02 11 -- 15 39 sorry about that...]. As I suggested in my previous post. This has been discussed in the past, and hopefully, something can be done about it soon.) User Manual INfoQube will appear somewhere under "Documentation" next to user manual (just over it, in my sample db) Of course, if you focus on "Documentation", and Paste "under the current parent as Links to existing items" there... It won't work as you're then trying to put infoQube under itself. I guess (maybe wrongly) that this is what you tried.

Jon

2011/02/11 13:16

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Wow, thank  you for the explanation.
 
"Just to make things clear : looking for items you pasted as links in the scratch grid can't be successful. The word "link" isn't the proper word, which creates more confusion."
Already I am not following. If I use CTRL+Drag method, I create a link under the desired item which becomes another parent to the item I just dragged. This displays correctly in Scratch and the Properties Pane shows all of the parents. So I would expect  the same behavior when I copy and paste as a link, but that does not happen for me. Nothing gets pasted. Now if I paste as a new item, then it works as expected. Shouldn't the item get pasted in the same spot with the only difference being that one is new and the other is linked?
 
Just to be sure that we are not misunderstanding each other, I am not searching for "link," but rather for the contents of the item I copied and attempted to link.
 
"However, if you look in the properties pane for these items, you'll see that they might now have 1000 parents, or some extra fields "checked" OR with other data."
 
No, not here.
 
 "Paste "under the current parent as Links to existing items" (note that "current parent" is important here as it doesn't paste "bellow", but... Above"
 
Where? I really cannot find it, and why above?
 
"User Manual will appear somewhere under "Documentation""
 
Not here. Again the source can be all items with no filters, but it does not display. Maybe it's me.
 
"Of course, if you focus on "Documentation", and Paste "under the current parent as Links to existing items" there... It won't work as you're then trying to put infoQube under itself. I guess (maybe wrongly) that this is what you tried."
 
This is not what I was trying to do. If I understand what you explained above, the paste process for links is counterintuitive as it pastes above the item (not consistent with paste as new item, nor does it make sense to me). This means that I would be attempting to link to a parent that does not exist as it is higher than a TLI. A godparent?
 
Jon
 
 
 

Armando

2011/02/11 15:35

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[quote]"Just to make things clear : looking for items you pasted as links in the scratch grid can't be successful. The word "link" isn't the proper word, which creates more confusion." Already I am not following. If I use CTRL+Drag method, I create a link under the desired item which becomes another parent to the item I just dragged. This displays correctly in Scratch and the Properties Pane shows all of the parents. So I would expect the same behavior when I copy and paste as a link, but that does not happen for me. Nothing gets pasted. Now if I paste as a new item, then it works as expected. Shouldn't the item get pasted in the same spot with the only difference being that one is new and the other is linked? [/quote] Ok, maybe I made things more complicated than they are. (It's not always easy to know what the other user is doing) Pasting as link is exactly the same as using ctrl+drag and drop. What I meant is that if you paste an item as a link, 1000 times, and you search for this item specifically (without expanding hierachies), you won't see 1000 items, but only one. You'll only see "multiple instances" if you expand all the parents under which it was "pasted"/linked. [quote] "Paste "under the current parent as Links to existing items" (note that "current parent" is important here as it doesn't paste "bellow", but... Above" Where? I really cannot find it, and why above?[/quote] Sorry, it's not above, :[... but at the same level.(Since it says "Paste under the current parent as Links to existing items"... And the parent would be above, not below. That's what I meant). The reason I mentioned that is that it's common mistake to expect the items to be pasted as children of the focused item. [quote]"User Manual will appear somewhere under "Documentation"" Not here. Again the source can be all items with no filters, but it does not display. Maybe it's me. [/quote] If we can't get this one to work, I don't what will... Here it works no problem, following the steps outlined earlier. [quote]If I understand what you explained above, the paste process for links is counterintuitive as it pastes above the item (not consistent with paste as new item, nor does it make sense to me). [/quote] Again... That was a wording mistake on my part. Sorry.

Armando

2011/02/11 15:43

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And there was another mistake in the other post... Corrected both. Steps should be clearer now. I should go back to bed and take a nap. :(

Jon

2011/02/13 10:02

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My original report of the problem with copy/paste link stands, but I think I found the source. My report was based on observations using two computers. One running XP SP3, the other running Vista Business. IQ portable version I was installed and configured on one machine,then copied to the other. All databases (existing, new, and sample) exhibited the described problem. My third computer is running Windows 7 Professional, but with a fresh install of IQ. All of the previously used databases work correctly (as described by Armando) on this third machine. I have copied the program to my other two computers and am now able to copy/paste link successfully.
 
The question is what did I do to configure IQ in the first two computers that would cause this problem?
 
Jon
 
P.S.In using this feature for the first time, I have an opinion about the way it works. Both methods (drag and copy/paste) are available in Ulra Recall and work consistently. IQ does not. Dragging an item to form a link can create one under the selected item. This seems more understandable and I'll bet that most users intend to do this. Not so with copy paste which can only create a link baove the selected item.

Armando

2011/02/13 10:54

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I don't know what causes your problems. As far as the mechanism to create links / copy, if I understand your comparison with Ultra Recall, that has been discussed a few times. User should also be able to paste as a child of the currently focused item. Also, maybe you missed my earlier posts, but I also said that it was a mistake on my part : it doesn't paste above, but at the same level.

Jon

2011/02/13 15:42

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[quote=Armando]User should also be able to paste as a child of the currently focused item.[/quote]
 
Agreed.
 
[quote=Armando]Also, maybe you missed my earlier posts, but I also said that it was a mistake on my part : it doesn't paste above, but at the same level.[/quote]
 
No, I read your posts very intently. Like you I mis-wrote. Sorry.
 
Jon
 
 

Armando

2011/02/13 15:52

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[quote=Jon]
No, I read your posts very intently. Like you I mis-wrote. Sorry.
 
Jon
 
 
[/quote] Ok, cool! Just wanted to make sure... :)

Tom

2011/02/13 12:21

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maybe Pierre would be able to look at the install (or relevant files thereof)
 
[quote=Jon]Dragging an item to form a link can create one under the selected item. This seems more understandable and I'll bet that most users intend to do this. Not so with copy paste which can only create a link baove the selected item.[/quote]
 
You probably know this:
Control + Dragging an item can also create a sibling item (similar to moving a folder in Explorer, and the same as how paste works).
 
How do you (or did you) think copy should work? (I dont use it so dont have ideas here)
Re the dialogue - if you think it could be stated clearer please make suggestions!
 

Tom

2011/02/11 15:43

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I copy an item (xml)
 
I select a "destination" item [1] and right-click and paste
 
I select "Paste under the current parent as Links"
 
NOTE:- this means it will be pasted as a sibling to the selected item ([1] above)
 
So if it doesnt show, click "Show all sub-items" in the parent's context menu.
One reason it might not show is that the parent is a context parent and doesnt actually "belong" in the grid.
 
Does that help any?
 
 

Armando

2011/02/11 12:28

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BTW... You could also try the tagging way explained earlier. This should be a no brainer.

Jon,
I cant help directly as I dont use copy + paste (& dont have time now to test) but just wanted to throw out another possibility which might be of help -
 
When copying/moving items within a large outline, I open two copies of the grid, create a dual pane setup with one copy on each side. Navigate to relevant part within each pane, then move/copy the items from one side to the other using the mouse.
 

Jon

2011/02/11 11:21

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 Thank you Tom. Yes, I do that too, but there are times when you need to see more of the outline on screen. Under those conditions, the diminished work space is less than ideal for me.
 
Jon

What's interesting to me about this thread is that it is seems to refer to a recurring problem. I, too, still have problems with copying, moving, etc. So I conclude that this are still needs refinement.

Armando

2011/02/27 23:07

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Yes, the adjustments aren't complete yet.