InfoQube IM - Community

Submitted by Armando on 2015/01/01 19:43

Hello!

As described in the subject line. I can't use V35 because of that.

I often click, drag, and ... the item(s) is/are left behind. So I have to repeat the process a second and sometimes a third time.

Basically, once I've clicked, the delay before IQ registers the click & drag is quite long.

Comments

Also -- but this is certainly not as important -- I'm not sure that the big green arrow showing where the dropped field will appear when moving columns/fields is more helpful than the smaller red one. I actually find that it's aesthetically a bit awkward. Just my opinion.

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

Sadly, I too don't find this change an improvement. The positioning of the arrows for the dropped field is less accurate than it ought to be - the field is sometimes dropped one position left or right of where the arrows are indicating.

Mark GREGORY, Redon, France - GMT +1/+2; EST +6

[quote=gregory]

the field is sometimes dropped one position left or right of where the arrows are indicating.

[/quote]

No change observed here in terms of column positioning on drag-drop:

When moving a column left, it always goes to the right spot.
When moving a column right, it goes an extra 1 column. This has been a problem for quite some time...

Thanks for that clarification, Pierre.

Mark GREGORY, Redon, France - GMT +1/+2; EST +6

Can you explain how v35 is not working for you ?

The difference is minimal... IIRC one now needs to wait a fraction of second to switch from selection mode to drag-drop.

Before it was instantaneous but one had to know where to click to select items, and it could be confusing to users.

Hi Pierre, it's exactly as I explained.

Here the difference is quite obvious. As I use IQ extensively, the v35 drag & drop feels like typing on a keyboard with keys that are not always working properly. That feeling is probably reinforced by the fact that it's responsive in other applications.

Edit : I understand your concern about new users not knowing where to click -- although I think once it's understood it's easy to repeat --, but I don't think that this should be improved at the expense of "responsivity"/consistency . Maybe could the above mentioned problem be alleviated by not allowing the mouse cursor to move away from the the item during the click+drag operation, before the item is properly selected ? Otherwise, what had become an automated action in all other applications becomes one that needs concentration in IQ.

(BTW : The "old" way isn't bad IMO. It's been a long while since I've seen anyone complain about that in particular.)

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

How long is the delay before drag-drop gets triggered on your PC ? Here it is barely noticeable...

The items are left "behind" or the grid is just in multi-select mode ?

In terms of delay length, I'll have to double check tomorrow afternoon/evening as I need to "reinstall" v35 and I've got much to do before.

Yes, the items are left behind and nothing gets dragged.

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

I agree with Armando here:

the delay is very short actually, but it does mean it no longer works as expected - which is difficult with something that is so standardised across all aps.

I like the way it makes it easier to drag-select fields, but I think it makes drag-and-drop unintuitive.

[quote=Tom]the delay is very short actually[/quote]

the delay was short, then I had an experience where I consciously waited after clicking, then dragged and I still got area selection instead of item selction/move.

So it looks to me that this is variable. I'll keep an eye on it (but dont drag/drop a lot).

FWIW I'm happy to try and get used to it, but a couple of points:

expected behaviour is that item is instantly draggable
Is this just my opinion(?):
tablet and touch-screen behaviour are not that relevant here - IQ is, and will largely remain an office-desktop app, where touch-screens are simply not that ergonomic to be used intensively.

[quote=Tom]

FWIW I'm happy to try and get used to it, but a couple of points:

expected behaviour is that item is instantly draggable
Is this just my opinion(?):
tablet and touch-screen behaviour are not that relevant here - IQ is, and will largely remain an office-desktop app, where touch-screens are simply not that ergonomic to be used intensively.

[/quote]

I share that opinion exactly. But anyway, like I said, I'll try to use it in the next couple days.

Let's see if it still slows me down in 2 days.

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

The delay was implemented by the grid supplier. I've contacted them to see if it is possible to revert back to the previous behavior, or at least provide a flag to control it.

That said, I don't find it particularly disruptive. With the increased popularity of tablets, we're getting used that different actions occur depending on how long one clicks on an item. We now often have for clicks and taps:

Short
Medium
Long
2-finger
Double

(The Long click/tap often triggers the equivalent of a right-click.)

YMMV of course, but I suggest we give it a try while waiting for a response from the grid supplier.

[quote=Pierre_Admin]

The delay was implemented by the grid supplier. I've contacted them to see if it is possible to revert back to the previous behavior, or at least provide a flag to control it.

Short click
Medium click
Long click
2-finger click
Double click

(The Long click often triggers the equivalent of a right-click.)

YMMV of course, but I suggest we give it a try while waiting for a response from the grid supplier.

[/quote]

I'm working right now, but I'll reinstall V35 and see if I can get used to it.

I understand the "tablets" new ways, but on my PC there's currently no short, medium and long click (talking about drag & drop especially, but it might be true for most applications).

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

Ok, so I've been dragging and dropping a lot and it,s not too bad once one understands that it's not a bug, but a "feature". I'm still not convinced (maybe in a few days or weeks) but I'll keep using it and see. :)

I understand the idea that 1- no pause allows "selection mode" only (not sure if that,s the right expression but don't have time to look for the exact one) 2- and a little pause allows dragging.

That said, I'm not sure if it's better than before as it changes an established convention that worked. E.g. in Explorer, Directory Opus (and other file managers) or Outlook, selecting and dragging works pretty much as in previous IQ behaviour (there's a zone for click+ drag, and a zone allowing the selection mode/rectangle to appear). However, I'm not aware of other applications with IQ's current behaviour, and that sets it apart. Let,s see if new/other users like it. If they do then keeping it is probably a no brainer.

One last thing : when new features are added to IQ, it would help if a more detailed description was provided. That way, ambiguous features would be more easily understood, better tested, and less time would be lost...

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

[quote=Armando]

[/quote]

I try to, but in this case, the change came straight from the grid supplier, and the change was not documented by them...

[quote=Pierre_Admin]

[quote=Armando]

[/quote]

I try to, but in this case, the change came straight from the grid supplier, and the change was not documented by them...

[/quote]

I see. It's not a huge deal anyway... It just makes testing, etc. simpler.

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

Both issues are now fixed. Please re-download v0.9.26PreRel36

My final verdict is that the new drag and drop slows me down.

1- Not only am I often selecting a bunch of items instead of dragging, 2- but sometimes, after pressing ESC to get out of edit mode, the dragging mode never starts after a long click and items are just left behind.

2- I also find that the big purple rectangle (while dragging) is a too opaque to allow me to clearly see where I'm going when I'm dragging several items at once.

3- I now find myself clicking and waiting for nothing in other applications (!!! yes, this probably brings me closer to a rat than a human, but what can I do) ... And this brings us back to the importance of conventions/expectations/consistency in a working environment to minimize thinking through operations that should be standardized automatic, transparent, quick. Maybe in 1-2 weeks my brain would adapt... But... Is it worth it?

I don't know about other users...

not sure why and how I'm the only one experiencing difficulties.

Maybe because I D & D a lot from grid to grid, etc.?

I just find it quicker in many cases. I use arrows too, but not to get an item from one place to a distant one.

Thanks for your comprehension and patience...

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

Drag delay: I was able to work around the grid supplier change. Expect it in the next version
Drag image: I didn't notice before you mentioned it, but it is true that the opacity was increased. I'll see what I can to reduce it. Will keep you posted

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Windows 8.1

Sony Vaio S Series 13 (SVS131E21L)

Ram:8gb, CPU: Intel i5-3230M, 2.6ghz

I'm not sure how to change the transparency, but I can hide the drag box+items altogether, how about that ?

[quote=Armando]I don't know about other users...

not sure why and how I'm the only one experiencing difficulties.

Maybe because I D & D a lot from grid to grid, etc.?[/quote] I agree fully with your post - I dont use drag and drop as much as you I reckon, but I do use it regularly.

And also for the reasons I already posted (again agreeing with you: mainly consistency with other software and current expectations of how something should respond in this scenario).

EDIT: sorry, missed your post Pierre.