InfoQube IM - Community

Submitted by jhondrick on 2009/03/26 18:55

The customize keyboard shortcuts for move up and move down seem to default to having no key associated with them. However, the left and right and up and down arrows, respectively, all move the cursor in this way. (EDIT: it seems the left and right arrows proceed through the columns and then to the previous or next item as Excel does when there are columns)

The typical, non-Excel, function of the left and right arrow keys is to move the cursor within the field.

That this is not the function of the left and right arrow keys in Excel makes it useful for its function, but miserable for daily text handling.

This is also the case with SqlNotes. The requirement to click a field or press a letter key before the cursor responds for text editing use kills the user friendliness of the product for data handling.

Comments

Apparently no one agrees with me that this is a bug.

I am sure that the goal of this product is to serve a broad base of users. Esoteric functionality, having things work unexpectedly, or having things fail to work as years of training have lead users to expect, greatly limits the willingness of a user to do more than try a product.

The most essential element to someone who needs a tool to accomplish work is ease of use. If you want to experiment and have fun trying things, that are free, as I often do, a little quirkiness is not a problem. But when it is time to work, and pay for a tool to accomplish that work, you turn from the quirky, and rely upon tools that function as expected because you cannot afford a tool that takes time rather than saving it.

In spite of the quirkiness, I am very optimistic about this product. I envision building a reporting application around it. But please! Text handling is so very important and with different operating modes and the requirement to click a field, etc., before it can be edited, before work can be accomplished, this product simply does not make it to the ease of use that I or a mainstream user will accept. And, lest any of those who might read this think they are mainstream, that you read it proves that you are not.

BTW: Ecco Pro, that this product intends to replace, certainly had no such issues of poor text handling.

I'm not sure I really understand your "criticism" in the first post.

(I agree with some of what you said about saving time, and ease of use in the second one. )

so, you are asking that as soon as a field has focus, that it is in edit mode

I think I'd like that myself

Tab to move from one field to the next - there is currently a difference between tab and arrow - tab will stay in one item going back to first field at the "end" of grid whereas arrow will move on to next item at the end of the row.

I'm sure you're aware of options to just start typing in a field & that text will be appended at the end or replace current text according to settings (& I realise it's different behaviour to what you're looking for anyway)

[quote=Tom] [snip]I'm sure you're aware of options to just start typing in a field & that text will be appended at the end or replace current text according to settings (& I realise it's different behaviour to what you're looking for anyway)[/quote]

What setting , Tom?

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-1

Jan:-

Grid > Auto Search:

SET to OFF
(ON = typing will search in column/field for cell beginning with whatever you've typed)

then

Edit > Overstrike:

ON = text in cell will be replaced when you type in field cell
OFF = when you type in field cell, text will be added to end of text that's already there (very unartfully explained, hopefully clear)

Tks, Tom. These are 2 totally separate functions, right? When you added "then" between the explanations, it threw me a little.

It seems to me that a single click in item field sometimes goes into edit mode, sometimes it takes two clicks (better). Does this happen to others? Maybe it's just me clicking 2x when I don't realize it.

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-1

[quote=jan_rifkinson]

Tks, Tom. These are 2 totally separate functions, right? When you added "then" between the explanations, it threw me a little.

[/quote]

yes, but first must be off in order for either of the editing options to work

You are correct, Tom. The default for cell focus should be edit mode.

I really do not see why the other mode is required. Ecco Pro had linking features and did not need one. In fact, I would advocate removing all modes in favor of a simple control-click or shift-click for links as in MSWord, in the HTML pane, also. Linking seems to be the only difference between the two(?) modes there.

>so, you are asking that as soon as a field has focus, that it is in edit mode

What about

Edit > Auto-Edit

Isn't it what you're describing ?

Yes, thanks, I found that and it is more convenient, but it still has the feel of a database interface. What was great about Ecco Pro was that you had all of the functionality, but it felt very much as if you were on paper. There was no mechanical feel as there is with this product.

Then, the whole issue of modes is one that has never been accepted by home or business users.

The only widely used software packages that I know of that have different input modes are in the *nix area, such as VIM. It is very good at what it does and widely accepted in that community, but that is a community of very esoteric users. And even there, I do not think modes are used in any of the X-Windows applications.

The appeal of this product suffers from different modes in both the grid and HTML panes. I for one find it very frustrating to try to edit something in the HTML pane, only to find that it will not work until I change from the browser mode. And there does not seem to be any overt reason for the two modes.

Thanks, Jack.

re Ecco:

The left pane in Ecco was like a word processor, but not the right pane. In IQ, there is no distinction between the two. In fact the Item column can be anywhere (unlike in Ecco).
Auto-Edit does make it feel more like Ecco (Personally, I never use it)
I find that navigating is easier in IQ than Ecco, because editing is not automatic (unless auto-edit is set). All columns are treated the same, and cursor keys allow fast scrolling. F2 is used to edit / show UI / end edit
When Overwrite is off, typing automatically start editing and appends. Great time saver (no need to scroll to reach the end)
Single click will start edting (if click is on some text, otherwise, first click will simply change the focus cell, second one will always start editing)

re HTML pane:

Can you explain in more details?
Feel free to make suggestions.

[quote=Pierre_Admin]

re Ecco:

The left pane in Ecco was like a word processor, but not the right pane. In IQ, there is no distinction between the two. In fact the Item column can be anywhere (unlike in Ecco).
Auto-Edit does make it feel more like Ecco (Personally, I never use it)
I find that navigating is easier in IQ than Ecco, because editing is not automatic (unless auto-edit is set). All columns are treated the same, and cursor keys allow fast scrolling. F2 is used to edit / show UI / end edit
When Overwrite is off, typing automatically start editing and appends. Great time saver (no need to scroll to reach the end)
Single click will start edting (if click is on some text, otherwise, first click will simply change the focus cell, second one will always start editing)

re HTML pane:

Can you explain in more details?
Feel free to make suggestions.

[/quote]

re Ecco:

1. That the item can go anywhere is very good.

2. Yes, it does help, but the transitions from item to item are slower and there is the shading that makes it look like the edit occurs in a hole. (I really hate the DBase/Access form look)

3. There is really no gain. In Ecco Pro, F11 or a single click switched to, from the column area, where the arrow keys moved the cursor freely left, right or up, down, again, faster than in IQ. (there seems to be a great deal of overhead somewhere. What I have done in VBA runs somewhat leisurely)

4 and 5. This is only necessary with the multiple modes.

Again-and please do your own survey for verification-programs that have used multiple modes for data entry and command, etc. have not lasted or have not been successful in the home and business use market.

Are the two modes a matter of taste, or is there something that makes them necessary?

re HTML pane

1. The pane seems to decide to be in Browse mode sometimes. I paste a paragraph of text in from a web page and then try to edit it and nothing works. When I remember that the mode exists, and turn it off, editing work as usual. Other times it is not in browse mode and things edit normally. It is possible that I have left it in that mode, but when there is only text, it is not reasonable that I have switched it into that mode.

Which brings us back to the problem of modes in general.

2. The program seems to switch out of the HTML pane automatically. This is a problem because I must turn away from it momentarily and return to find it in the grid, or try to use Ditto to make a paste and it does not work.

3. When I copy a bit from the page I am writing this in and paste it into the HTML pane, and then turn on browse mode, as verified in two different files, a "Just-in-time debugging" window opens and demands attention, disappearing only after repeated clicks of the "no" button.

[Edit -- response to Jack] I'd say there are different modes because there are different types of user.

The only problem is to have the different modes to be explicit, and to have the default one be the most popular one.

[Edit]

Ex Ecco users are usually very vocal about having everything the way Ecco was. It's legitimate, but maybe that does not always correspond to what other users want.

Like Pierre, I almost never use the auto-edit mode. I like to be able to chose when a cell is in edit mode. And if I'm writing something, creating items one after the other, edit mode is automatic... Like a word processor. So you see... A question of habit, maybe.

That may be valid. I think the main problem is that one gets accustomed to using tools, whatever they may be. When I am handling text, I want the tool to act like Word, and the needed DB characteristics to be there but not intrusively. When I am working with data, it is constantly being updated with new information, so editing ease is very important in order to have the focus be the work rather than the tool. When too much attention is required to use the tool, it becomes the focus and slows the work.

When I look at the IQ options dialog, there is plenty of room for more settings, so the answer would seem to be more work for Pierre: put in more options for differing default behaviors. Especially for the last part of my previous message, about the seeming default to switch back to the grid from the HTML pane.

[quote=Armando]

>so, you are asking that as soon as a field has focus, that it is in edit mode

What about

Edit > Auto-Edit

[/quote]

I tried that for a while today but hyperlinks no longer work so it's deselected again ...

I've sent a bug report on this issue to the grid supplier