When I move items around and change their level, and than refresh, the item reapear as a 1st level item so I have this item in several places. How to avoid it?
Jay
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[quote=jsolka]
When I move items around and change their level, and than refresh, the item reapear as a 1st level item so I have this item in several places. How to avoid it?
[/quote]
Hi Jay, this not my area of expertise - I think there is still a display bug in certain situations that causes items to show twice - but usually the 'problem' (it's actually a feature) is to do with settings:
Can you tell us the settings for the grid ?
Hierarchy on/off
Full Hierarchy on/off
Context Parents on/off
these are all visible under menu > Grid > etc.
It's possibly to do with Hierarchy being off and a sub-item meeting the grid source conditions (e.g. a sub-item in inbox having the inbox field ticked) -
it then shows as a sub-item and as a top-level item.
Jay, one of the beauties of IQ is that a single item can be shown in different places.
I don't think you will necessarily want to avoid it but rather to learn how to master it.
For example, let's say you have a task item like: "Finish the basement"
"Finish the basement" can be assigned (therefore appear) in various grids.
Again, for example, let's say
the task is scheduled for Tuesday
the task is assigned to Jim's Contracting Co,
the task is assigned to Tom who works for Jim's Contracting Co.
so
Grid 1 could be your weekly schedule & "Finish the basement" would appear under Tuesday in the following way
Tuesday
"Finish the basement"
Grid 2 might be a list of all your task items in the re-modeling of your house & "Finish the basement" would appear in the following way:
"Finish the basement" and in a cell next to it "Jim's Contracting Co."
Grid 3 might be a contact list of all the employees of all the contractors including "Jim's Contracting Co" & "Finish the basement" you appear in the following way
Contractor A
Contractor B
Jim's Contracting Co
Tom
"Finish the basement"
You could also see all this information in one Grid as well & it might appear in the following way:
Task Day of week Start Date Completion Date Contractor Carpenter
Remodel of House
Finish Basement Tue July 1 July 10 Jim's Contracting Co. Tom
However you have only added "Finish the basement" a single time. It is a single item that can appear in many contexts
Now this may seem a little complicated to you right now but it is very simple once you grasp the idea. While there are times you may want to actually make a copy or clone of an item, most times it's really a matter of assigning different fields to it.
Others who are much more experienced with IQ can provide better information than I can but the above is the essence of IQ that you must understand first in order to do everything else.
I also think you should spend a little time working thru some of the examples provided in the online manual. Much of the manual is being written by users like us so you may find the approach is less technical but offer more practical information. I've found it very helpful on many an occasion.
>Others who are much more experienced with IQ can provide better information than I can but the above is the essence of IQ that you must understand first in order to do everything else.
Don't be so modest Jan. Your description of IQ is one of the best that I've seen ! Thanks for taking the time to explain it so well.
Thanks Keith. Feel free to use my description anywhere you think would be useful. As for an SNDB, I'm thinking that we had once talked about gathering blank files to a repository where they could be used to help folks see different ways IQ data can be structured. I can send one of those along if you think it would be helpful altho, I hasten to add, that most of us I'm sure, I continue to change, refine, adjust my setup every time I have a new use for my data but for everyday use, my dB structure might be useful. Let me know what would be helpful to your efforts on the manual.
These were both files I put together from others' descriptions in forum posts.
I was hoping you had a file ready-made, so I didn't have to take time to scratch-build it. I think an small little .snbd would help to make things crystal clear.
On the repository subject, I'll make another post regarding that.
I was hoping you had a file ready-made, so I didn't have to take time to scratch-build it. I think an small little .snbd would help to make things crystal clear.
[/quote]
You've done a lot of work on the manual. My turn. I'll look @ the links & put something together for your approval.
[quote=KeithB]
On the repository subject, I'll make another post regarding that.
An item may be shown more than once in the same grid (is that your case?), depending on the display settings (context parents, hierarchy, save item state).
If you provide a screenshot, I'll be more able to explain why it is that way.
I understand the beauty of an item being able to appear in many grids, yes, even in one grid more than once, but not when I just move the item -- moving means moving, when I move from Europe to US I'm not in Europe anymore. That's what I expect to happen in IQ -- 3-dimension universe.
Anyway, yes, this is my case. I have "Full hierarchy" on "Save item state" on (BTW -- I'm not sure what it is for). I just wanted to move an item from one place to another so it has a different parent now, and I don't want its old parent to be its parent anymore. Now I have it appear in places I wanted specifically the item to be removed from, and I don't know how to do it.
Thanks.
Take care,
Jay
P.S. In regard to the Manual, I'm sorry, but at its present state it's too spotty to be reliable, and everytime I try to use there is either no answer to my question there, or it is incomplete, so I will need to use the forum anyway, and since it's not reliable, it doesn't pay to invest my time in researching it. But I believe that it certainly become useful in the future. Not now. Not for a man with a job and a family that just wants to use IQ, because it is still the best one he knows.
The item "a" was a subitem of item "b". I moved item "a" (by the way of arrow+alt) first to the left and then up and then to the right, so item "a" became a subitem of item "c". Now, when I refreshed, item "a" reappeared as a 1-st level item, being still shown as a subitem of item "c".
Similar think happened when I moved an item from 1-st level (again with arrow keys + alt key), so it would become a subitem of another item. Then when I refreshed, the item reappeared as a 1-st level item, being still displayed as a subitem of that other item.
Again "full hierachy" and "save item state" are both on.
Well, Jay, quite frankly your response to my post leaves me w little interest in helping you further. However, I'd like to point out -- for whatever it's worth -- that you wrote the following:
[quote]
When I move items around and change their level, and than refresh, the item reapear as a 1st level item so I have this item in several places. How to avoid it?
[/quote]
Clearly you were not 'moving' anything. What I was trying to point out to you is that most of the time it is not even necessary to move anything anywhere, just to display it in a different mode, ie. using different sources & filters & sorting.
As for being a man w a job & a family, etc, I think it is safe to say that you are no busier than the rest of us & that your time is no more valuable than the next person's & the hundreds of hours that folks like Tom, Armando, Keith -- let alone Pierre -- and others spend here is purely voluntary so let's not diminish their time in favor of yours.
Sorry Jan if I offended you. I certainly appreciate all your effort, and all the voluntary (and professional) effort. of others And I used "working man" and "family" to represent any potential user. Honestly, I don't think IQ is going to be able to survive commercially as it is, so I'm concerned, because I like it. And I appreciate all the great effort of Keith. It's immensely impressive. But at the present level it is not for a normal user. And when I asked my question I might have been unclear, and that's the reason why I got an answer to question that I really wasn't asking. I believe it is still unaswered. Unfortunately, if IQ is supposed to survive it cannot rely on sympathy a few enthusiast, but rather stand against tough market. So, to sum up, I'm sorry if I offended anyone personally.
Yes, I wanted to comment there as well Jay, but ironically I didnt have time!
Thanks for your response.
Me,
I would appreciate if you were more detailed and exact in your questions and tried to answer any questions to you accurately as well - otherwise we're wasting both our times here..
And no, your question has not been answered yet - I cant answer it - it looks like a bug to me but I'm not the expert here
I'll quote it here again so it doesnt get lost:
[quote=jsolka]
The item "a" was a subitem of item "b". I moved item "a" (by the way of arrow+alt) first to the left and then up and then to the right, so item "a" became a subitem of item "c". Now, when I refreshed, item "a" reappeared as a 1-st level item, being still shown as a subitem of item "c".
Similar think happened when I moved an item from 1-st level (again with arrow keys + alt key), so it would become a subitem of another item. Then when I refreshed, the item reappeared as a 1-st level item, being still displayed as a subitem of that other item.
Again "full hierachy" and "save item state" are both on.[/quote]
And no, your question has not been answered yet - I cant answer it - it looks like a bug to me but I'm not the expert here
[/quote]
Tom, I may be wrong here but I still have the feeling that Jay wasn't moving anything. Maybe if he described the steps he took to do what he thought was moving, someone could help him more precisely.
01- Fix Hierarchical bugs (and other similar bugs)
Why ? Because 1- it can be very confusing for experienced or new users when, in the midst of some work. several TLI appear... when they've never been "put there" before (!), 2- trying to create grid grid filters to not have these "fake" TLI items appear is VERY time consuming, especially when trying to create other filters to find specific items, etc.
01- Fix Hierarchical bugs (and other similar bugs)
Why ? Because 1- it can be very confusing for experienced or new users when, in the midst of some work. several TLI appear... when they've never been "put there" before (!), 2- trying to create grid grid filters to not have these "fake" TLI items appear is VERY time consuming, especially when trying to create other filters to find specific items, etc.
Edit : jsolka, what you can do -- but it's not optimal since it'll make your other filtering tentatives a bit harder -- is that you can use the alphanumeric toolbar (press the [A] on the source bar , on "alphanumeric toolbar" in the grid menu) to filter out quickly those items which are not top level items.
Probably 2 or 3 possibilities here :
1- In the alphanumeric toolbar, set the field as NbParents and the value to "0". This will filter out any item that shouldn't be top level items. But this won't work if you've got top level items which are also children of other items in other grids/contexts.
2- Create a field called TLI, and check all these items which are Top Level Items. In the alphanumeric toolbar, select the TLI field, and... put the value to -1.
3- Restate the source in the alpha numeric filter, and put the value to -1.
Test the different possibilities, some might work for you, others won't.
Thanks for the screenshot Jay. So Names was moved correctly, from one parent to another. You're wondering why it is also showing as a TLI. I suspect that Names meets the grid source, and that is why it is shown as a TLI. The screenshot does not show this information.
As a general guideline, screenshots should contain:
The item your concerned about, with focus on that item
The Properties pane, with, at a minimum, the Filled Fields section showing
The Source bar visible
The Standard toolbar visible (to see the display settings)
If possible, the field(s) upon which the grid is based (the grid source), showing as column(s) in the grid
the only reason this should happen AFAIK is if Hierarchy is off (& if the item has source field ticked)
[/quote]
Unfortunately, this isn't true. This is what Armando reported. Say you have
A
B
C
If A and C meet the source, but not B, IQ will show it as follows:
A
B
C
C
The reason is that in Full Hierarchy, the grid rearranges the items according to the hierarchy. As B does not meet the source, it isn't there during this process and C is seen as not having a parent in the grid. So it is left as a TLI. Later on (when Save Item State is processed), A is expanded, to show B and B expanded to show C.
Is the above example referring to the situation when only full hierarchy is on, but hierarchy is off? How would it be different if both were on? What is the use of not having certain items meet the grid source? I understand they would't show when only hierarchy ( but not full-hierarchy) is on. Am I right?
(Sorry, I don't know how to delete the message above .)
Is the above example referring to the situation when only full hierarchy is on, but hierarchy is off? How would it be different if both were on? What is the use of not having certain items meet the grid source? I understand they would't show when only hierarchy ( but not full-hierarchy) is on. And if every single item including all sub-items met the grid source, then the full hierarchy and hierarchy would show exactly the same grid. Am I right? How about "flat view"? If only TLI met grid source, then the flat view would display all items on the same level, in other words it would be really "flat". Am I right?
Is the above example referring to the situation when only full hierarchy is on, but hierarchy is off?
How would it be different if both were on?
What is the use of not having certain items meet the gridsource?
I understand they would't show when only hierarchy ( but not full-hierarchy) is on.
And if every single item including all sub-items met the grid source, then the full hierarchy and hierarchy would show exactly the same grid. Am I right?
How about "flat view"? If only TLI met grid source, then the flat view would display all items on the same level, in other words it would be really "flat". Am I right?
1 & 2: what I was saying above is that full hierarchy only seems to work if hierarchy is on (I dont use toolbars so I mean that in the menu > grid - you can see it's selected). In other words - in order for full hierarchy to work, hierarchy must be on. To see the difference between the two look at the manual page linked above 1. Grid Display Modes (btw if your looking for stuff in the manual I find the quickest way is to simply do a search of the table of contents page www.sqlnotes.net/drupal5/index.php)
>Is the above example referring to the situation when only full hierarchy is on, but hierarchy is off? How would it be different if both were on?
There's no such thing -- as far as I know -- as "full hierarchy" ON and hierarchy off... It could be, but it isn't.
There's a part in the manual discussing hierarchy/full hierarchy.
Pierre : if there's no intention of letting users being able to activate/deactivate full hierarchy while hierarchy is off, I suggest to disable the option in such a case. Makes more sense, less confusing.
>What is the use of not having certain items meet the gridsource?
Well if you have an address grid and wan't it to contain contacts, mainly, but also other info, you might want to have other info than contacts not meeting the source so that they can be easily filtered out and clearly identified. As simple as that.
> I understand they would't show when only hierarchy ( but not full-hierarchy) is on. Am I right?
Yes.
> And if every single item including all sub-items met the grid source, then the full hierarchy and hierarchy would show exactly the same grid. Am I right?
Yes.
> How about "flat view"? If only TLI met grid source, then the flat view would display all items on the same level, in other words it would be really "flat". Am I right?
Yes. But items not meeting the source won't be shown as TLI.
(However, if you follow my indications, be aware that "inheritance" ON can cause some performance problems at the moment. Pierre is working on it though and it should improve in the future.)
Pierre : like I said in the past, I believe that, at least for the beginners, "flat" view (hierarchy off) might be easier to understand, if hierarchy was completely disabled in that case -- ie : not possible to expand items, unless "show all sub items " is used. I'd actually miss the current behaviour, but I know that it's not very intuitive. it could be an advanced options in the potential "advanced options" section in IQs tools> "options".
I was wondering if there is a way to have a "full" flat view (I think Armando refers to this), meaning have each items from the grid listed (once!), and no subitems at all. Would it be possible to include:
1. All items regardless whether they meet the gird source or not?
>What is the use of not having certain items meet the gridsource?
Well if you have an address grid and wan't it to contain contacts, mainly, but also other info, you might want to have other info than contacts not meeting the source so that they can be easily filtered out and clearly identified. As simple as that.
[/quote]
That means that by turning on hierarchy only (not full hierarchy) I would be able to filter out the items that don't meet the source?
> I was wondering if there is a way to have a "full" flat view (I think Armando refers to this), meaning have each items from the grid listed (once!), and no subitems at all. Would it be possible to include:
1. All items regardless whether they meet the gird source or not?
2. Only those items that meet the grid source?
1- No. For that you need to use a strategy like the one I referred to in the link posted in my previous post.
2- That's the current behavior.
The only thing that the user must be aware of is that it's still possible to expand hierarchies, even when in "flat" view -- what I refer as potentially confusing for new users in my previous post (and seems that I'm right about
that...)
>That means that by turning on hierarchy only (not full hierarchy) I would be able to filter out the items that don't meet the source?
yes (with the current limitation/confusionPierre, Tom and I referred to earlier ... that should soon go away).
The reason is that in Full Hierarchy, the grid rearranges the items according to the hierarchy. As B does not meet the source, it isn't there during this process and C is seen as not having a parent in the grid. So it is left as a TLI. Later on (when Save Item State is processed), A is expanded, to show B and B expanded to show C.
[/quote]
Pierre, is that a difficult problem to fix - or is it a problem the grid-supplier must fix ?
Comments
related hierarchy problems thread : Context Hiearachy problem
Specific Mantis issues : 213 & 0214, (reporter : Armando)related hierarchy problems thread : Context Hiearachy problem
Specific Mantis issues : 213 & 0214, (reporter : Armando)