InfoQube IM - Community

Submitted by woodworker on 2012/01/11 19:11

Hi Pierre,

I have been following Infoqube's development with great interest for several years. I like Infoqube and the idea behind it and I am the happy owner of a license. I was an avid user of EccoPro for 10 years. But EccoPro is seriously out of date and has a fair amount of glitchiness. I know you are extremely busy but I am made bold by the program itself. It is VERY interesting and potentially an all encompasing PIM for my business, and for people like me.

I am not a programmer. My children are, but I am not. Infoqube remains just a little bit beyond my ability to completely understand. I was able to master EccoPro, because it's programmers always intended it to be a PIM for common consumption. Infoqube, however, remains the domain of engineers and programmers.

Currently I'm not using Infoqube because it is always changing and I often lose data when updating to the latest version. There have also been issues with various odd behaviors just one of which is the strange behavior of calculations in columns, sometimes working and sometimes not. Right now I can't use Infoqube seriously with my business information.

But it has a nice calendar, a useful gantt chart, and lots of other good functionalities which I would love to learn and put to use. Yet it remains just beyond my ken. Are you planning to develop it to where a person like me, with my programmer limitations, can learn how to use it with confidence?

It's just my opinion but it seems like a good time to say "no new stuff", add the finishing touches, write a decent manual, and make it a commercial product. I really think it's a great program. As a sign of my sincerity I will be more than willing to run a mock business with Infoqube as the PIM, complete with timeline, estimates, invoices, and email communications, and let you know of buggy behaviors, if it will help you.

Best Regards,

Will Highfield

Comments

Hi Will,

I see your post has gone unnoticed so I'll try to answer a few of your preoccupations :

[quote] I often lose data when updating to the latest version[/quote]

This shouldn't be. I've been using IQ for many years and this didn't happen.

[quote]here have also been issues with various odd behaviors just one of which is the strange behavior of calculations in columns, sometimes working and sometimes not[/quote]

This was clearly an issue. I believe that this was completely fixed in the las 2 versions. I rely on column calculations quite a bit and haven't had any problems in the last months.

[quote] Are you planning to develop it to where a person like me, with my programmer limitations, can learn how to use it with confidence?[/quote]

I think Pierre definitely plans to make things simpler with 2 modes : advanced and basic modes.

[quote] It's just my opinion but it seems like a good time to say "no new stuff", add the finishing touches, write a decent manual, and make it a commercial product.[/quote]

it seems like the goal now. The problem is that even though there's a "no new stuff" policy (Pierre will correct me if I'm wrong), there's still some "old stuff" that's incomplete... That needs to be addressed/finished even if it appears (to the user) as... new stuff.

[quote]I really think it's a great program. As a sign of my sincerity I will be more than willing to run a mock business with Infoqube as the PIM, complete with timeline, estimates, invoices, and email communications, and let you know of buggy behaviors, if it will help you.[/quote]

That one's definitely for Pierre! :)

Thanks for taking the time to share your impressions.

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Windows XP Home Edition, Service pack 3

Dell Vostro 1500, Ram:3gb, CPU: Intel Core2Duo T7500 2.2ghz

Thanks for your reply, Armando.

I know I shouldn't have lost data and I can't explain it. I upgraded last year and in the process lost a good portion of the database for a test model I was building for my company. Don't remember the version number and don't know if it was the program or my computer which is responsible. I have always used the portable version.

As soon as I read your response I began another test model for my company, just to see where things were. One of the things that stands out is that calculations are still a little difficult to set up. For instance, in setting up columns for parent and child subtotals, they also appeared in columns where I did not expect them. When I corrected the configuration in the field properties dialogue, and did all the saving processes, the problem remained even after I closed and reopened the program. I had to delete the data and re-enter it to get it to appear correctly. I know I haven't submitted documentation on this, but I'm pretty sure these behaviors must have been noticed by others. This program is very rich in functions, so all I was saying is that it seems like time to fix this buggy stuff rather than add new stuff. it appears that others might agree.

Man, I really like this program, and I like that Pierre has worked so hard to make this happen. I just want someday to see a finished program that I can use with confidence. It appears that others have the same thoughts as me, so I'm not worried that it will happen. Anyway, as I start to use my model for company business I will give feedback in a way that is more helpful. I suspect that as the program increases in stability, this community will be very helpful to Pierre.

I am also hoping to see a pdf, or help-based manual that is indexed and clearly written. That's a tall order and I mention it because it will ensure that non-programmers such as myself can figure this thing out without driving Pierre crazy. I really think that people like us will be a major portion of Pierre's sales.

My highest respect to Pierre and those is this community who have helped with the process.

Best Regards,

Will Highfield

Hi Will !

Thanks for sharing this with us, with me. And thanks for the good words !

The focus is currently on fixing bugs and on the Google Calendar sync (and small improvements, when I find an easy to implement solution)

All users are entitled to free training, by phone (typically 1 hour), to jump start your knowledge of IQ. Feel free to use it. At the same time, perhaps, we can look into where this "lost" data could be (I suspect it is still in the IQBase, but simply not currently shown on one of IQ grids (remember that IQ is like a cube, with data "in" it and you choosing what part of this data is shown on the cube faces...)

Have a great day !

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

As I set up a model of my business I noticed that the current version (Version 0.9.25W5 build 2/16/2012 2:39:30 PM Beta
Running in Portable mode) is very stable, so I went ahead and began to use it for my business. So far no data loss.

I am a remodel contractor and woodworker, therefore estimates and breakdowns are important. A standard spreadsheet won't do the job easily, but InfoQube does. By the use of checkboxes I can choose the items a customer wants and give the customer an adjusted price on the spot, not unlike a menu.

Very soon I will send you some pictures of the way I use InfoQube. In the meantime, here are some odd behaviors which occur regularly. I am using a Lenovo T410i and prefer the little red joystick button to move the cursor.

vertical scroll bars in grid windows do not work (vertical scroll works only in html window, horizontal scroll works only in gantt charts)
information pasted into html often (but not always) causes the cursor to jump and paste to the end of the previous line, or some other place, instead of where I originally place the cursor.
I use a format of three vertical window with the html window on the right... When I go back and forth between grids, the items in the grid I was formerly using retain the blue selected color even when I have selected an item in another grid. This is visually confusing... Perhaps, there is a way to differentiate more clearly between currently selected items and previously selected items in another grid.
I stopped using the addressbook because addresses entered would seem to disappear, although they showed up in a search. I am probably misunderstanding how to use the various filters. I think there should be a "show all" button to show all addresses.

Hi Will,

I can comment on points 3 & 4:

3. [...] When I go back and forth between grids, the items in the grid I was formerly using retain the blue selected color even when I have selected an item in another grid. This is visually confusing... Perhaps, there is a way to differentiate more clearly between currently selected items and previously selected items in another grid.

The colour in the non-active grid is paler than in the active one. It shows fairly clearly on my screen, but may be dependant on monitor & it's settings - brightness/contrast/etc.

4. I stopped using the addressbook because addresses entered would seem to disappear, although they showed up in a search. I am probably misunderstanding how to use the various filters. I think there should be a "show all" button to show all addresses.

If your address grid is as in the sample file, the source field is "AddressBook" (as in screenshot). If items are added to the grid at the top level, they get this field automatically ticked. But if you add an address as a sub-item, it will not get the field ticked - as the selected item below. (It's probably a good idea to show the "AddressBook" field/column in the grid so you can keep an eye on the items.)

In theory, if you want to show all addresses then, leave the source field and removing all other filters should do it, so long as they all have "AddressBook" field ticked.

HTH, Tom

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Win 7 Pro 64bit ~ Portable IQ 0.9.25.W5

Thanks for the help Tom.

Here is another, more serious problem with InfoQube behavior. Since I am continuing comments from a previous post, I will number it in sequence with that post.

5 Items in the grids often rearrange the order in which they are displayed. For instance, most of my grids are items only, that is to say, no other columns - just items. I use an item-only grid for my address book. Each item has a letter: A, B, C, etc. and each item has sub-items, which are the names. I enter the addresses in an html window for each name. Simple, huh, and it works quite well, except that the items rearrange themselves so that, for instance, the letters read A, C, F, B, D, E, etc. I don't do this - it just happens. A lot. This happens on all my grids, whether they have sub items or not. Here is a picture. In the left hand column, DAILY NOTES was at the top of the items when I closed InfoQube. In the right hand column notice the out of sequence letters.

Thanks Tom,

Here is another unusual behavior.

5. Items in the grids often rearrange the order in which they are displayed. For instance, most of my grids are items only, that is to say, no other columns - just items. I use an item-only grid for my address book. Each item has a letter: A, B, C, etc. and each item has sub-items, which are the names. I enter the addresses in an html window for each name. Simple, huh, and it works quite well, except that the items rearrange themselves so that, for instance, the letters read A, C, F, B, D, E, etc. I don't do this - it just happens. A lot. This happens on all my grids, whether they have sub items or not.

Hi Tom, Pierre,

Thanks for the comments. I had no success uploading a picture, so here is a description of the latest odd behavior.

Hi Will

I'm not 100% sure what is happening there, but it's probably this:

The default sort in IQ is by "ItemCreated". This would equate to the sequence in the first (numbered) column when the items are first added.

Solution below

Unfortunately sorting is a bit complex (Pierre does intend to simplify/streamline it AFAIK)

There two main methods of sorting (for images see the sorting page in the manual 5. Sorting and Grouping Items)

1) The sort box - which is on the end of the Source/Filter bar (Alt+S to show-hide, or in the menu under "Grid")

2) The sort bar - also under Grid in the menu.

(1) gets remembered even if the "Source Bar" is not showing - so if you want default sort to be alphabetical using the Item field, just put Item in (1) and ensure that it is active by clicking the AZ button (you may also have to click the refresh button at the end there)

If both 1 & 2 are showing, I think (2) takes precedence.

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Win 7 Pro 64bit ~ Portable IQ 0.9.25.W5

Tom, thanks for your help. I guess this is for Pierre.

I read section 5.3 on sorting and what I understand it to say is this; There is no way to keep base items in the order I want them arranged. They will always revert to original entry order. Well, this is way over my head, but here is my take on it.

Average users, especially one who has come out of the EccoPro environment, expect that they are in charge and will be able to put things in any darned order they want. This is something very basic - we want the program to serve our needs, not vice versa. Is there any way the sort function can be disconnected in a grid to leave things as we want them to be, or allow base items to be permanently re-ordered. The reason is that the thoughts that naturally occur in "thinking things out" aren't always perfectly ordered. When I set up an estimate I'm always remembering something else that I had not thought out before, or maybe a customer changes things on me, and I want to put it in a different place and have it stay there. This includes base items and sub items.

Finally, my schedules are constantly changing, and to have an inflexible gantt chart which keeps putting things back the way they were is incredibly frustrating.

My best to you, Pierre

Will Highfield

Hi Will,

Currently, base items (or top level items) order is not saved. So when a grid is opened, the items are shown in an order set by the sort order (or date created if no sort is set). Sorting can be on any field. Some people use a numeric field for this purpose. There is a useful function for this: Renumber Items, which will automatically fill a numeric field with a list of increasing numbers. You can then sort on this field. This is a workaround, I understand.

More practical, is simply to put items under a main item. The order of sub-items is saved. So if you have an item Project1:

Project 1
- Task 1
- Task 2
- Task 3
Project 2
- ...

You can manually order Task items and they will be saved. Gantt charts is a visualisation tool. In addition, if a project is delayed, you can select multiple items, or a whole project and drag-drop to move all of them at once. This can be a real time-saver (otherwise, you must manually change all dates)

HTH

[quote=Pierre_Admin]Some people use a numeric field for this purpose. There is a useful function for this: Renumber Items, which will automatically fill a numeric field with a list of increasing numbers. You can then sort on this field. [/quote]

Just be careful to not select the item field if you use the "Renumber item" function ! it will replace your item's content with numbers. It happened to me once, by mistake.

Pierre : maybe something to prevent that kind of unfortunate mistake would be good... Either an "undo" possibility, or the ability to define a default field for the Renumber dialog ? I don't know...

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Windows XP Home Edition, Service pack 3

Dell Vostro 1500, Ram:3gb, CPU: Intel Core2Duo T7500 2.2ghz

Good point !!!

Will,

I, too, came from EccoPro, Zoot, Ultra Recall & have found that IQ is a head and shoulders above the rest but the use has to turn a corner & understand the principal of the program. So I understand some of your frustration.

We each have our own way of working but it sounds to me like your address book setup is a bit more complicated than it needs to be. Of course it may serve your purposes but if you will allow me to suggest an alternative.

When you have some spare time, you might try the following set up. It won't be perfect but it may show you a different, easier, more efficient way to use IQ. OTOH, it may not & just turn into an exercise. But as a fellow user, I suggest the exercise.

If you don't know how to do the following steps, come back to the forum & we can walk you thru them.

1. Create a field called address book if you don't have one already.

2. Gather all your address book entries

3. Select all entries

4. open the field properties pane & under all fields find the "address book" field

5. check the box. This should assign the "address book" field to all your entries

6. make sure that the item column is the tree column

7. open the sort bar

8. Click the little "A" with the funnel (you should see the alphanumeric menu)

9. Click the AZ with down arrow & in the entry space offered, add item asc (or desc) as you wish

10. Click the little refresh button to the right of where you entered "item asc"

That should sort all your items which should be your address book entries in alphabetical order

Now if you want "Jan Rifkinson" just click the "J" or "R" depending on how you store names & it will filter everything else out

Once you do these settings, they will remain between uses.

If you want to add a name to your address book, just create a new item anywhere & assign it to the "address book" field & it will appear in your address book the next time you look.

HTH

Hi Pierre and all others who have been so helpful,

I appreciate all the workarounds you have generously donated your time to develop for me. Going back to my original post, I'll restate my feelings about InfoQube.

I like the program. I really do. I want Pierre to succeed and be able to retire on his earnings from it. Now, I can't back this up with data, but it seems to me that there might be a market for a really useful database like this. I'm thinking of myself as a representative for the non-programmers out there who might need a database PIM that does addresses, spreadsheet calculations, gantt charts, multiple view windows, EccoPro type layout, modifiable lists, etc. I don't know if I really represent this kind of person or not, but I think I do.

That said, workarounds, such as Tom and Jan_Rifkinson suggest (as useful as they are), just will not go over with this crowd. This is why I'm taking the time to bring it up, and why I'm using InfoQube for my business.

When I suggest a "show all" button for addresses, I don't know if it's possible or not. The ability of lists to keep their order is pretty basic for us guys (Pierre, your solution works good, it's just that a lot of list making programs work the way I'm suggesting without a workaround. I don't know if "my people" will have the patience to figure this stuff out. Again, I don't know if what I suggest is possible or not. This is basic useability for people such as myself who really aren't database engineers or coders. I eventually got EccoPro to do some pretty cool stuff but it took years for me to figure it out, and EccoPro was abandoned.

But this shouldn't be thought of as negative feedback. Infoqube does some pretty cool stuff itself. For instance, I can copy an estimate (with subitems and calculations) and paste it into another grid and every time I change the first estimate, it changes in the other grids as well. This is incredibly useful to me. it allows me to have 1) a master estimate with calculations, 2) a copy of the master which allows me to create options, along with calculated totals of the options, and 3) another copy of the master which allows me to create divisions of monies needed at various stages of the job. All of this saves me lots of time and agravation. It allows me to adjust estimates with a phone call, saving me tons of email time.

The ability to create multiple vertical windows and an html window lets me make notes on schedules, addresses, and project info. It is my InfoQube dashboard screen. Then if I want I can pull up a full sized estimate window and then close it and there I am, back at my dashboard screen.

I've used all the outliners. InfoQube, in my opinion, is the best of the bunch, but after three years it is still the plaything of coders. Anyway that is my opinion and I hope I have not given offense. I'll continue to use it as long as it is stable.

If you all think I'm out of line for making all this fuss, just say so and I'll butt out.

Will Highfield

PS Another program which kept its difficult nature intact is ACDSee Canvas, an illustrating program. It is still alive, but only barely. It is so very excellent at what it does that it has an incredibly avid bunch of users, just not enough to make it profitable.

[quote=woodworker]

If you all think I'm out of line for making all this fuss, just say so and I'll butt out.

Will Highfield

[/quote]

Thanks for your precious comments.

The problem is in fact pretty "basic" :

1- behaviours/UI in InfoQube aren't always consistent

2- and some features are difficult to use properly for mere mortals. :)

Pierre is absolutely aware of that. I'm pretty sure all these concerns will be priority #1 after the calendar syncing implementation and the most important bugs are fixed.

As for Tom and Jan's comments, I wouldn't call them "work around" per se. Simply, they reflect how things like sorting etc. can be achieved in various ways.

For sorting, what mixes people up is that

1- there are 3 diff. ways of sorting (using columns header which act directly on what is see in the grid, using the sort text box in the source bar which acts more at the database level but which effects are similar to the columns header, and using "arbitrary sorting" when no column or dB sort is active -- see the help file for a description of all 3)

2- TLIs don't retain arbitrary sorting and sub items can/do (depending on your sorting parameters)

I don't have the time to read the whole thread etc. but it seems that you were having 2 problems : losing items, and losing your arbitrary sorting.

- Losing items : this is a common problem as most users don't get that grids are views based on filters. If your items don't match the filters (in the source bar : alt+s), they won't show. Now there are nuances to learn once you get that, but it's the main principle to understand.

- Losing your sorting : this is another common problem as people don't get why TLI shouldn't stay in the order where you moved them. But once you get that TLIs are only sortable through "automation mecanisms" like column headers and the sort text box, it's not a problem anymore.

I'm not sure how to keep the sorting both flexible and safe. Ecco's way isn't bad, but it has its flaws too.

What should be the solution for sorting ? This has been debated a few times.

Maybe :

1- completely remove the possibility to achieve arbitrary sorting by just moving items around. If one wants to move items around and stay where they are one would have to renumber items or whatever. I'm not sure if that's the best solution

2- The second solution would be to make the TLI arbitrarily sortable exactly like the sub items can. This would probably be the best, but there's still the danger of messing your sorting by clicking on a column and then moving items.

Anyhow...

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Windows XP Home Edition, Service pack 3

Dell Vostro 1500, Ram:3gb, CPU: Intel Core2Duo T7500 2.2ghz

Re Sorting

Non-manual sorting may seem like a workaround, because the interface is complex [edit/ the Sortbar is well designed ], and having two sorting methods confuses the user.

[quote=Armando]

What should be the solution for sorting ? This has been debated a few times.

Maybe :

[/quote]

I like (1) if you could have a button/shortcut that would save the current Manual Sort. You could then sort "automatically", and still revert to the manual sort (again ideally via button/shortcut).

This still has disadvantages - if one forgets to save the manual sort....

Disadvantage of automatic save of manual sort is, as you say, that it's so easy to lose your manual sort.

Will, If you followed my notes, with one click you could show all addresses. But like any other program it takes a little patience, practice & understansing. Everyone here is very helpful if given a chance. This is not ecco, zoot, ultra recall or any of the other dB programs out there. It never will be. It is better. If you want to invest some time it will probably pay off for you. I have ALL my projects, articles, journals, diaries, research, notes are in IQ. I have yet to lose one item over the years even when I thought I had. Data entry & finding anything is a cinch. But I certainly underztand "each to their own".

Jan and Tom, thanks again. Of course I will use your kind suggestions.

I am happy that there you all aware of the various user-friendliness issues that face a person such as myself. Onward.

Will

I just want to add my appreciation of the time you took to articulate your experiences with the User Interface with some good specific examples.

(actually - we have all gone through these exact issues...).

I'm particularly grateful because people like you (and me) are the market. It has to be very intuitive first time.

I have a hunch it will be by v 1.0

[quote=TL Marcel]

Will

I just want to add my appreciation of the time you took to articulate your experiences with the User Interface with some good specific examples.

(actually - we have all gone through these exact issues...).

I'm particularly grateful because people like you (and me) are the market. It has to be very intuitive first time.

I have a hunch it will be by v 1.0

[/quote]

Yes, that kind of feedback is invaluable.

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Windows XP Home Edition, Service pack 3

Dell Vostro 1500, Ram:3gb, CPU: Intel Core2Duo T7500 2.2ghz

I am continuing my "odd behaviors" reports on the BUG forum. It seems a better place to discuss this stuff.

Will