InfoQube IM - Community

Submitted by pjbw on 2009/12/09 14:26

As an ex-Ecco user I have followed InfoQube and its predecessor for many years and each version is an improvement. BUT:

I have just tried to set up an address book in 0.9.25Pre-Rel3 in XP Pro SP2.

I had entered my 11 top level categories and could not find a way to sort my one out-of-order top level entry. There was something called Hoist which looked as if it might do the job. I could not find anything about it in the documentation.

Disaster! My menus now just flash when I click in the menu bar. There is no way of saving a file (I hate relying on autosave in pre-release software). I reloaded InfoQube to see if it might reset but no. have now lost my luckily small list.

I entered 'infoqube hoist' in Google and found that Hoist was actually a toggle in the Grid menu. A pity; using it causes my menu system to be inaccessible.

( I am making do with Natara Bonsai at the moment - limited but no autosave! and bug-free so far and well documented.)

Comments

Hello.

Your comments are welcome and since IQ is still in beta (see http://mantis.sqlnotes.net/) it's always a good thing to have other points view.

Granted, there are still bugs and issues. But I've been using for 2 years and... couldn't replace it with any thing else. : )

(Especially not Natara Bonsai... :) Not the same beast, at all... Even if good at what it's doing.)

It's much more powerful than Ecco IMO. There are soooo many things you could never ever do with Ecco. And most things possible with Ecco are now possible with IQ.

Documentation is imperfect and a collective effort here. But there is some good stuff not to be missed!

So... 1st question : did you look at the manual ? Because I believe most of the problems you've encountered would probably be easily solved with a a few pages of reading.

Software should be as intuitive as possible, sure, but there are limits to intuitiveness. For IQ, some learning is required. But the basic principles are easy and quite simple.

2nd question : did you start with a complete DB or did you use the provided template ?

And now a few answers to your questions :

>I had entered my 11 top level categories and could not find a way to sort my one out-of-order top level entry

Sorting is done through the sort box, in the source bar (alt-s) (see Items, Values and Views, 5. Sorting and Grouping Items in particular]. It can also be done through the grid headers. But this will go away between refreshes (F5 -- well, until Pierre stabilises this issuw which can be worked around easily with the sort box.

The documentation explains it fairly well. What problem exactly did you run into ?

>Disaster! My menus now just flash when I click in the menu bar.

This is a new bug which wasn't there before. It's actually pretty much fixed in the current 0.9.25Pre-Rel4. It will definitely be fixed in next release as IQ is in constant flux. The work around is to click on the grid tab. Menus will then work properly... So, disaster is a pretty big word here. A bit to dramatic, maybe. :)

>There is no way of saving a file (I hate relying on autosave in pre-release software).

Everything is automatically saved. this is the nature of IQs DB. You don't need to save anything when the info is entered directly in the grid.

>I reloaded InfoQube to see if it might reset but no. have now lost my luckily small list.

Nope, you haven't lost anything. :) Unless you deleted the items yourself.

Just press ctrl-f (quick search) and press a word you know was there in your list... What do you see ?

If you want more info, I'll show you where your items are. What you probably did, is entered a list of items which didn't meet the grid's source... If you don't know what a grid's source is... Well look at Items, Values and Views... There are also more details in other sections.

Hoisting ? Hoisting has nothing to do with sorting, so I wonder what you were trying to achieve with it. It is not complete yet ... the main things it doesn't do are : "save item state" compatibility and maybe one other thing I can't think off at the moment

Cheers.

>the main things it doesn't do are : "save item state"

FYI, item expand state is now saved when hoisted:

Select items
Hoist selected
Expand some items
UnHoist: view is restored to pre-hoist state
ReHoist: view is restored to hoisted state (with #3 items expanded)

[quote=Pierre_Admin]

>the main things it doesn't do are : "save item state"

FYI, item expand state is now saved when hoisted:

Select items
Hoist selected
Expand some items
UnHoist: view is restored to pre-hoist state
ReHoist: view is restored to hoisted state (with #3 items expanded)

[/quote]

Ah ! Thanks... You see, I missed that enhancement. So hoisting is basically perfect now !

Hi,

I'm sorry if you're having difficulties with this version. As stated, this is a pre-rel version and as such, has some bugs. If you want, you can download the last stable version (0.9.24H5)

Regarding your questions:

re: TLI items sorting: Unlike Ecco, it is not currently possible to manually position TLI (top level items). For this, you can use the sort box (Alt-S). Details here: Items, Values and Views
re: Menu flicker: This issue is new to 0.9.25Pre-Rel and will be sorted out in Pre-Rel4 (if I can finally reproduce it...) [edit 2009-12-10: Got it and fixed it! [/edit]
Your list is definitely not lost. To find it again, you can open the Journal Grid and use the DateFilter to filter on items added in recent days. Also, the flicker seems to go away by clicking a second time on the grid tab
re: Auto-save: As with many modern information management applications (such as Outlook), IQ is data-based. This means that any changes is immediately commited to the database. This is required to maintain performance with large data sets, to allow multi-user, etc.

Ooops. We almost posted at the same time. You provided a more concise answer... Hopefully there are some useful details in mine.

Pierre : I said it already, but I really think that the "blank DB" shouldn't be the first choice in the file>>new menu...

The blank DB is the one that's selected by default by new users when they're not careful. And it brings more problems (questions...) than it solves. I think it should be the second choice + a warning that it's for advanced users.

(That said, I don't know for sure if pjbw used the blank DB or the template...)

[quote=Armando]

Ooops. We almost posted at the same time. You provided a more concise answer... Hopefully there are some useful details in mine.

Pierre : I said it already, but I really think that the "blank DB" shouldn't be the first choice in the file>>new menu...

[/quote]

Thanks as always for posting. Your info was complementary to mine.

File>>New now created a database with sample data. Thanks for the suggestion.

1) I started up a manual page on hoisting with a link to Pierre's announcement of it. (You are familiar with the glossary, aren't you--it did have a small blurb on hoisting)

2) I imagine you couldn't post your database in the forum, but if you'd alt-S or Grid>Show SourceBar, and post a screen capture of your database with the sourcebar showing, I bet this group could get your addressbook working great, and make you the next expert.

3) I've been meaning to create a standalone database "template" with the sample data, and my version listed somewhere in the forum, but hadn't gotten to it just quite yet. Seeing how your addressbook differs from the sample data one could give me more ideas for this template.

4) that flashing bug is a pain, but it won't be around long I'm sure; I'd also suggest you stay with the stable version, at least for learning.

5) Thanks for the feedback; it is very much needed for helping improve things,

6) take a look at Journal Grid . After you do the alt-S, make the dropdown say "all items" and hit F5, and you should see all your data.

>4) that flashing bug is a pain, but it won't be around long I'm sure; I'd also suggest you stay with the stable version, at least for learning.

I think I've got it fixed. It had to do with some new event-driven routines I added to make the UI more responsive.

Wow; I don't know where to start my reply! Thank you all for your support and tips in this thread. 1. I put my flashing menus down to the fact that I was running IQ on my second monitor with that help tree in Firefox on my primary monitor. I noticed that IQ would always load in the primary monitor even I had dragged its window over to the second monitor and exited IQ there. Most other apps these days (even Bonsai!) reload in the monitor they were previously closed in. Maybe IQ is not yet entirely happy working across monitors, hence the disappearing menus. (2 x 1600x1200 px driven by a Radeon X1650 card). 2. I was used to dragging items up and down the outlines in Ecco (and Bonsai). I could see how how to sort sub-items but not in my top-level. In the absence of any documentation Hoist seemed a likely candidate. Ah well; if all else fails there is always Undo... 3. Bonsai is definitely only a stop-gap until an Ecco replacement comes along - I need those columns! I will have another go at my address book structured as it was in Ecco and now in Bonsai. There is always Google if I can't find Help in the IQ documentation, eg. such as where I eventually found Hoist, too late! 4. My CV: 20 years writing hierarchical and relational databases. So Ecco was no problem. However I gathered that Ecco failed because users could not cope with its combination of a hierarchical DB (outline) with relational links, and so their links (columns) would get tangled and the files crash. I worry that IQ may be getting too complicated for the general user. 5. PLEASE: Since everything goes into the one .SNDB file I really wish there was the option not to autoserve (as in Ecco (and Bonsai)) certainly while IQ is being developed. Probably too late in the development by now though. Another nice touch would be more Ecco-like hot-keys for entering items, sub-items, etc.

[quote=pjbw][snip] Another nice touch would be more Ecco-like hot-keys for entering items, sub-items, etc.[/quote]

<ENTER> = new sibling

<CTRL><ENETER> = new child item

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

Thanks Jan,

This book page gives more info: Grid/Items keyboard shortcuts

And besides, look @ how I mis-spelled <ENTER>

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

[quote=pjbw]2. I was used to dragging items up and down the outlines in Ecco (and Bonsai). I could see how how to sort sub-items but not in my top-level. In the absence of any documentation Hoist seemed a likely candidate. Ah well; if all else fails there is always Undo...

[/quote]

So, like Pierre said : use the sort box in the source bar (alt+s or in the menu "Grid">>"Show Source BAr"). the sort box as the right end. Write "item" only if you want items to be sorted in ascendant order. Write "item desc" if you need it in descending order.

But of course all that is in the documentation.

[quote=pjbw]

3. Bonsai is definitely only a stop-gap until an Ecco replacement comes along - I need those columns! I will have another go at my address book structured as it was in Ecco and now in Bonsai. There is always Google if I can't find Help in the IQ documentation, eg. such as where I eventually found Hoist, too late!

[/quote]

Like Pierre said previously, Hoist is now efficient and does exactly what it's supposed to do... ;)

[quote=pjbw]

4. My CV: 20 years writing hierarchical and relational databases. So Ecco was no problem. However I gathered that Ecco failed because users could not cope with its combination of a hierarchical DB (outline) with relational links, and so their links (columns) would get tangled and the files crash. I worry that IQ may be getting too complicated for the general user.

[/quote]

So if you wrote relational DB, you'll feel at home in IQ, and the SQL like syntax used in the filter box will feel familiar.

IQ will eventually come with an advanced vs basic interface. That should solve many problems... Advanced users will be happy to be able to write their own scripts etc., "normal" users will be able to use it as if it was a standard PIM... but with more possibilities down the road.

[quote=pjbw]

5. PLEASE: Since everything goes into the one .SNDB file I really wish there was the option not to autoserve (as in Ecco (and Bonsai)) certainly while IQ is being developed. Probably too late in the development by now though. Another nice touch would be more Ecco-like hot-keys for entering items, sub-items, etc.[/quote]

Do you mean autosave ?? Of course, I wonder why it shouldn't autosave... especially when dealing with a DB. But, because there are no multiple UNdos at the moment, I can understand it could be useful... IF users make regular backup.

Hopefully you'll find value in IQ... GREAT value... ;) and stick with it like all of us here who realised there are no other PIM out there that is as flexible, powerful and can do what it can do.

Cheers !

No autosave. I can see plenty of probabilities down the road where I think I may have made cumulative mistakes and would like to backtrack and start again. This is not the same as doing periodical Save As's or backups. I was able to recover my Address list using the Search (Ctrl-F) routine. 'Hoist' is going to be very valuable. It still needs its interface sorted out though. I opened IQ in my main monitor this time, selected an item and did Grid, Hoist - very impressive. I could not get back to Grid, Hoist to toggle it off again because the menus just flashed. However, clicking on the Hoist icon toggled it off and restored the menus. Keep up the good work!

Great!

The menu flashing is fixed and I'll release a version once testing is completed.

Regarding saving, the solution we'll be adopting is to stick with a file database (Ecco was using an in-memory database) but provide multi-step undo. There are numerous advantages to file databases.

I agree. Ecco was too limited by its in-memory database. But I still think that there should be a no-autosave option while IQ is being developed. No doubt there are advantages for file databases for net-working and such exotica but for single users like me who are learning the very complicated application multi-step Undo's are only part of the answer - I may not even know where I have gone wrong (reminds me of learning Photoshop!). Besides, if multi-undo steps are being held on file and the user decides to abandon that run without saving it then the program just has to restart at the user's last Save point, wiping all the Undos'. This is probably too simplistic so I won't say any more!