InfoQube IM - Community

Submitted by jan_rifkinson on 2010/01/04 17:32

Every time I try to use copy / paste function -- even w the new fancy dialog (much better, thank you) -- sometimes I still end up with confusing results like:

no pasted data (may be a matter of my display settings)
pasted in a location other than what was indicated by new fancy (excellent addition, thank you) arrows
now @ the level I planned & thought I dropped for

<CTRL><D/D> works like gangbusters but isn't always a convenient solution

Maybe it's just me. I'd like to hear from others on this matter.

Thanks.

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

Comments

While I've only been using IQ for a few weeks, it wasn't until very recently, maybe the last five days or so, that I found out how to copy and paste. I only know how by pressing <CTRL> while doing a drag and drop. Some more explicit instructions would be welcome.

Once you realized you could copy / paste, did you find it easy to use? straightforward or confusing? Were the dialogs clear? Do you think it could be better / easiehr? If so, how? What would you change? This is important.

Thanks

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

<CTRL> Drag Drop isn't to copy paste. We should stop saying that ! It allows an item to have several parents, but it's always the same item. It's not really copied and pasted. However it's possible to achieve that through the copy-paste dialog.

Now... Jan, could you be more precise -- step by step instruction -- about what doesn't work as expected? It takes time to test stuff and problems.

I just tested all options and everything seems perfectly fine to me.... And, frankly, I don't see how it could be clearer.

But that's me. And IQ shouldn't be clear to me only.... ;)

So, what's unclear exactly ? What doesn't work as expected ?

[quote=Armando]Jan, could you be more precise -- step by step instruction -- about what doesn't work as expected? It takes time to test stuff and problems.

I just tested all options and everything seems perfectly fine to me.... And, frankly, I don't see how it could be clearer.[/quote]

When I start another article, I'll try to do as you ask, Armando.

I think I'm using the right tool (but maybe not) when I work from draft to draft, i.e.

I gather my research

I write a rough

I whittle it down to a draft

I improve the draft

I cut down the draft

I refine the draft

I finalize the draft

I like to keep each effort as separate efforts, i.e. when i make changes in the refined draft, I don't want it to change the cut down draft, etc.

Edited 01/05/10 03:25 pm: Added screen capture

what you can't see is copy as xml for IQ

paste as new item below selected item

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

What I don't see from your capture is that a dialog should appear when copying and another one when pasting. Are you getting those ? Is it possible to see it ?

[quote=Pierre_Admin]

What I don't see from your capture is that a dialog should appear when copying and another one when pasting. Are you getting those ? Is it possible to see it ?

[/quote]

Yes, dialogs appear. Sorry it wasn't clear above

[quote]

Edited 01/05/10 03:25 pm: Added screen capture

what you can't see is copy as xml for IQ

paste as new item below selected item

[/quote]

Does this answer your question sufficiently?

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

PIerre : sometimes pasting is flaky when I paste at 1st level (TLI). But I haven't determined why and when does this happen. Usually, nothing happens and I don't get the pasting dialog.

(about absence of dialog in jan's screen capture : My guess is that they're out of the frame and that,s why the mouse disappears from time to time. Not seeing them don't help diagnosing problems, that,s for sure.)

I did another screen capture that may be a little better for you Pierre.

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

In Paste, you choose option 2, which does not create a new item, it simply puts the item under that parent. [edit]t~~, but it is there already, so nothing to do~~ Which it does correctly[/edit]

Pierre you are right that in that video & went back & forth but you can see another item #8 appear above Research. So even if it's just a link why should that happen. Also I just went back & repeated my steps but selected new item below selected item or whatever that dialog is & the same thing happened, i.e. a new #8 was created above Research. All I can tell you is that copy / paste is not working the way I think it should work. Now granted, I'm just an average dumb user but I am your ultimate customer so I will continue to insist that something is screwy -- either with the way I'm doing it, my machine or..... maybe..... just maybe it's an IQ problem. I'll come back to this when I have another occasion to use this function.

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

I don't think this is a new item, simply the same item showing twice (check the item ID). As you choose option 2 in the paste step, it is merely adding the same item to another parent (as it should IMO)

Jan : unless you paste as TLI, which seems to be flaky but it might be because of my clipboard manager, it works as expected. Reread my last post.

Now... Maybe is the paste dialog wording not appropriate ?

Paste under the current parent, as NEW items

--> Paste as NEW items

Paste under the current parent, as LINKS to existing items

--> Paste as LINKS to copied items

Pierre : maybe mentionning parents is too much. Let's forget the "parent thing". Items are always pasted as sillings of the selected parent anyway... Whether they are links or new items.

What do you think ?

Pierre : as I reread this, and as I rethought of Jan's problem, I think you should probably rephrase the pasting description... In a more simple way

As I suggested:

--> Paste as NEW items

--> Paste as LINKS to copied items

Let's drop the "parent thing" as the items are always pasted as siblings anyways, whether they have a parent or not.

And the explanations in the parenthesis should be kept as they are, IMO.

And what do the other users think ? (it's an important matter as these small things make a big difference in usability)

[quote=Armando]

As I suggested:

--> Paste as NEW items

--> Paste as LINKS to copied items

Let's drop the "parent thing" as the items are always pasted as siblings anyways, whether they have a parent or not.

[/quote]

I agree,

If you wanted you could substitute something like

--> Paste at this level, as...

> And the explanations in the parenthesis should be kept as they are, IMO.

Agreed

Would that make more sense to you Jan?

Maybe try a test copy and paste - and try substituting Armando's directions (or my variation) and see if it's clearer ?

Suggested copy dialog language

Paste here as a copied item
i.e. updating this item will NOT update the original item

Paste here as linked item
i.e. updating this item WILL update the original item

----------------------------------------------------------------------

There has to be some kind of parallelism in the explanation so people get the basic idea that -- while the item may look the same -- it does not function the same way.

Does that help?

01/07/10 05:56 pm edit: bumped for comments

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

I 'd skip the "here" (paste here...) as it's not necessary and might actually cause other confusion.

What's wrong with :

-> Paste as NEW items

(blablabla...)

--> Paste as LINKS to copied items

(blablabla..)

Did you notice Pierre's comment re: 'new' item?

Edited 01/08/10 : Believe me when I say I think you guys are complicating things by trying to streamline too much & mixing words -- example link & copy. My goal was to make it more conversational & directed to the single event the user is contemplating. But I will bow out of this discussion @ this point as I don't believe I can add anything more to the conversation.

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

[quote=jan_rifkinson]

Did you notice Pierre's comment re: 'new' item?

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

[/quote]

Sorry, I don't get it...

1- what comment by Pierre ?

2- what's complicated...? You're asking for feedback and you're getting some... I don't care that much about what words are used in the copy/paste menu as I understand what's meant anyways. However since I spend much time answering questions here, I'm trying to figure out what will be the easiest for new users to understand but without generating ambiguities we'll have to deal with afterward.

E.g. : "paste here" could mean that the currently selected would be erased with other content. That's what happens when pasting over something selected in a word processor.

[quote=Armando]

-> Paste as NEW items

(blablabla...)

--> Paste as LINKS to copied items

(blablabla..)

[/quote]

using that and slightly clarifying / simplifying the parts in brackets (I think anyway) -

======================================================

Paste as NEW Items

(independent of original items)

Paste as LINKS to copied Items

(no new items are created - copied items simply shown in another location)

=======================================================

for reference, the current version is:-

Paste under the current parent, as NEW Item

(i.e. new items will be independent of original items)

Paste under the current parent, as LINKS to existing Items

(ie. this does not create new items, it simply adds new parent links)

This error appears when I paste under current parent as new item (and I am focused on Drafts)

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

I don't see any problem in this screen capture. Your pasted item appears as the first item below the "budget centers" parent. Probably because of the way you configured your "sort filter"

However, I don't understand what you mean by :

"paste as new item below selected item" as I don't see that option... This is not the right wording.

[quote=Armando]

I don't see any problem in this screen capture. Your pasted item appears as the first item below the "budget centers" parent. Probably because of the way you configured your "sort filter"

However, I don't understand what you mean by :

"paste as new item below selected item" as I don't see that option... This is not the right wording.

[/quote]

Armando, I don't know what you're talking about.

Budget Centers draft #8 was the last in the list under #7

I focused on the item # & copied that one

I focused on "Drafts" & pasted

You can see #8 appears above Research -- not under Drafts.

IMHO, there is something wrong. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe it's a bug

But one way or the other, something is not right & -- like I said at the start -- I still find this a bit confusing.

Sorry if I sound testy.

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2

>Armando, I don't know what you're talking about.

>Budget Centers draft #8 was the last in the list under #7

>I focused on the item # & copied that one

>I focused on "Drafts" & pasted

>You can see #8 appears above Research -- not under Drafts.

>IMHO, there is something wrong. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe it's a bug

>But one way or the other, something is not right & -- like I said at the start -- I still find this a bit confusing.

>Sorry if I sound testy.

1- There was no "Budget Centers Draft" item under "Budget Centers" until you pasted it. Look at your screen capture again. i did, and I see an extra "Budget Centers Draft" appear right under "Budget Centers" after your paste.

2- Yup, you focused on draft. And you selected "paste under current parent...". And what is "Draft" current parent ? Answer : "Budget Centers". So "Budget Centers Draft"appears where it should appear

[quote] 2- Yup, you focused on draft. And you selected "paste under current parent...". And what is "Draft" current parent ? Answer : "Budget Centers". So "Budget Centers Draft"appears where it should appear[/quote]

Now we're getting somewhere.

What you are saying is I should focus on sibling & then "paste under as new, independent"

Is that right?

If so, then the new independent copy pastes immediately beneath the parent. In this case that's not so bad since there are only 8 sub-items.

But what happens if there are 108 items? User will have to scroll back to search for it maybe.

Do you think it should be a paste as a sibling -- rather than the current wording

Or maybe the wording is fine just the way it is & it's just me that found it confusing. I'm willing to stipulate to that.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Jan Rifkinson

Ridgefield CT USA

HP Blackbird Vista Ultimate SP-2