2- press F11 : HTML pane is detached (usually, in my case, it fills the lower half of the screen and I'm having trouble resizing it.)
3- Resize it and Position it somewhere in the middle of the screen (detached, of course).
4- Press F11 : it goes back to it's pined state on the right.
5- Press F11 : it detaches and is positioned to the center.
6- Press F11 : it hides (now autohide mode) to the left of the screen (unexpected)
7- Repeated F11: will now always hide to the pane to the left side / detach it in the right position
8- Now : hide it by pressing F11, hover your mouse over the tab, click on the pin, and the pane is docked to the right (instead of the left where it should be pinned) (unexpected)
9- Press F11 : it detaches the pane and is positioned to the center. Try to resize the detached pane : can't
10- Press F11 : hides again (autohide mode) to the left of the screen (unexpected)
11- Press F11 : it detaches the pane and is positioned to the center And I drag it to the right to dock it.
12- Press F11 : it detaches the pane and positions it somewhere at the bottom and half of it is hidden off screen.
13- Press F11 : it hides (now autohide mode) to the left of the screen (unexpected)
14- From there... Press Shift-F12... I expect the pane to appear docked on the right, but it appears positioned to the center.
15- Press Shift-F12 Again : it docks to the left ! (Something I never chose)
16- Press shift-F12 again : it appears at the bottom right of my screen, half hidden, detached.
17- Press shift-F12 again :it hides the pane completely and the tab is now nowhere to be found (which is a tad weird, but kind of expected)
18- Press shift-F12 again: it appears at the bottom right of my screen, half hidden, detached
I'm currently using an IE based editing component, and it is buggy and I do things to work around the bugs. What's seen here is consequence of these workarounds...
I'm seriously considering purchasing a more robust and complete editing component and add support for both RTF and HTML formats
The IE based onewas fine to start with, but it has reach its end of life.
I'm currently using an IE based editing component, and it is buggy and I do things to work around the bugs. What's seen here is consequence of these workarounds...
I'm seriously considering purchasing a more robust and complete editing component and add support for both RTF and HTML formats
The IE based onewas fine to start with, but it has reach its end of life.
[/quote]
I see. Any ideas of which component seems like a nice fit for the job ?
hmmm... Yes I must say it's quite attractive ! Pretty impressive set of features ! [Edit.... Not to mentioned that it's cubed. Can't be a bad thing...]
Since it can convert to pdf (wow), can it display pdf files? Haven't seen that on the description page.
I can see this as faily high priority, as more and more users are using IQ to write. The order would be:
Google-Calendar sync (v0.9.26)
New UI (v0.9.27) (more to come as to what this will be)
New rich text editor
Items 2 and 3 may be reversed, depending on user feedback.
Yes, the new editor will have easy highlighting and spellcheck (English, Dutch, German, Spanish, French, Italian)
It costs between $500 and $1200, depending on options. If I see interest (hint... and perhaps more donations), I'd go for the Cadillac which supports footnotes, floating text boxes and multiple columns.
Pierre, as one person who tries to use IQ for writing, I think this will be a great addition to the program. I downloaded the demo & played around w it a little. One piece that seems to be missing is 'word count' which is important for those of us who have to write xxx words or no more than xxx words. Maybe the developers would add it.
Right now I use a google word count app so I copy out of IQ paste into word count, etc. Currently my bank account is bare but I will donate toward the effort on the first of the month when I'll have a few more bucks on hand. Thanks for pursuing this missing piece for IQ.
I love the idea of going to pdf or rtf directly from the program. Footnotes are important. I think whichever module you pick should be as robust as possible. The pop up editor is kind of nifty but I didn't understand the use of the split editors.
I don't know if this particular engine is the right one, i.e. I don't know what's affordable & what's out there but I will repeat what I said above -- this would be a wonderful addition to the program. It doesn't look like they've done much development for a few years.
Absolutely a giant step for writers. Sorry I missed the 2010 news. Let's all get together here & get the super duper version. As I said earlier, I will contribute on the 1st. Having HTML, PDF & RTF in one box would be awesome. Can we do it tomorrow? No, no, CALENDAR w all the fixings first. As for IQ's GUI, we all know it needs improvement but it seems to me that v1 is when we can do a big marketing push. So up 'til then, those of us who use it regularly understand the current quirky GUI. I think attracting users now is more important & adding a REAL writing tool should help in that regard.
I mean, really, how exciting it would be to find one tool that
imports, links data from all sources: internet, email, etc
outlines & groups that data, allows assignments to different people, etc.
allows user to set task dates & deadlines between a calendar & Gantt chart
provides excellent writing tools for students, writers, people working on dissertations, lawyers, etc.
As for IQ's GUI, we all know it needs improvement but it seems to me that v1 is when we can do a big marketing push. So up 'til then, those of us who use it regularly understand the current quirky GUI. I think attracting users now is more important & adding a REAL writing tool should help in that regard.
I mean, really, how exciting it would be to find one tool that
imports, links data from all sources: internet, email, etc
outlines & groups that data, allows assignments to different people, etc.
allows user to set task dates & deadlines between a calendar & Gantt chart
provides excellent writing tools for students, writers, people working on dissertations, lawyers, etc.
WOOOOO !!! WOOOOOO!!!!
[/quote]
Sorry Jan, and maybe others... But I strongly disagree. I don't think that the HTML pane, even if imperfect, is what puts off new users when they're put off...
I'm one those users who knows IQ very well and doesn't need any new filter UI whatsoever to do stuff with IQ. However, it seems to me that it's the filtering mechanisms, the UI, and why items appear in girds or not, and other related stuff that's really the main problem. That + several of the things mentioned above... So basically, apart from 2 or 3 items (like column equations, and hierarchy + inheritance reliability and performance problems which mysteriously don't seem to affect others) what I'm saying is that the only thing I'm truly concerned about is IQ's ease of use for New users.
Oh, and I forgot : printing. Printing should always work perfectly, should be easy. Whether it's through the WYSIWYG printing dialog, or through the HTML export one where user should be able to save different config. (That said : I never print)
Ok, whatever. doesn't surprise me that you disagree, Armando.
Pierre let me know what direction you are going to pursue. I will help w donations for the new HTML.module if you decide to go in that direction. Otherwise I will continue to contribute my time & comments to this forum -- for whatever they are worth.
let me know what direction you are going to pursue.
[/quote]
Here are a few more thoughts after reading Jan's and Armando's comments a few times.
I agree with some of both "sides". I use both the html pane, and Word occasionally, but I still like the idea of the built-in editor to have a great deal of capability. I don't use the grids for text near as much as Armando and others, but would appreciate some improvements there also.
Will this editor be able to perform do the html with pictures, and or support mht?
Armando, it is a pretty impressive demo, you might want to look at it. It seems a huge step above the present component.
I also fear it could take a while to get it going properly--Pierre, have you spent much time with trial versions, to get an idea of how big the job would be? I'm hopeful that you can partially install the Cadillac, and get it going as well as the present one, then incrementally turn on and program in more features.
Pierre, if this route is taken, have you researched to know this is the component has any competition that should also be looked at? Also, have you seen it in use in any existing programs?
Also, have you talked to many writers, about whether this would sway them to try/use IQ?
Jan : let's not make this too personal please. You might "not be surprised" by my comment (for whatever reason) but I'm a bit surprised by yours -- especially considering that I followed up on many of your requests and complaints, reading them carefully, bringing them back to the front, etc.
As you know, I'm almost always available to help here, and I'm only trying to look at the broader picture : What turns off the user most ? The HTML pane ? Maybe, but then, statistically, the forum comments don't reflect that. Well, I don't think so.
[quote=KeithB]
[quote=jan_rifkinson]
let me know what direction you are going to pursue.
[/quote]
Here are a few more thoughts after reading Jan's and Armando's comments a few times.
I agree with some of both "sides". I use both the html pane, and Word occasionally, but I still like the idea of the built-in editor to have a great deal of capability. I don't use the grids for text near as much as Armando and others, but would appreciate some improvements there also.
Will this editor be able to perform do the html with pictures, and or support mht?
Armando, it is a pretty impressive demo, you might want to look at it. It seems a huge step above the present component.
I also fear it could take a while to get it going properly--Pierre, have you spent much time with trial versions, to get an idea of how big the job would be? I'm hopeful that you can partially install the Cadillac, and get it going as well as the present one, then incrementally turn on and program in more features.
Pierre, if this route is taken, have you researched to know this is the component has any competition that should also be looked at? Also, have you seen it in use in any existing programs?
Also, have you talked to many writers, about whether this would sway them to try/use IQ?
[/quote]
Yes I looked at the demo and everything. I calculated the price for the modules etc. It's very exciting (have a look at one of my previous posts...) .
But that's not my point. My point is more : what is the priority at the moment ? The HTML pane replacement isn't even part of Mantis. PDF creation, etc. isn't part of Mantis.
Talking about a future implementation of a new HTML component is one thing. I agree with it -- eventually. wasn't I clear bout it ? But... seeing that it might come before other very important things is another. Pierre was asking for user feedback about and "early" HTML component implementation... I gave my opinion.
Jan : let's not make this too personal please. You might "not be surprised" by my comment (for whatever reason) but I'm a bit surprised by yours -- especially considering that I followed up on many of your requests and complaints, reading them carefully, bringing them back to the front, etc.
As you know, I'm almost always available to help here, and I'm only trying to look at the broader picture : What turns off the user most ? The HTML pane ? Maybe, but then, statistically, the forum comments don't reflect that. Well, I don't think so.[snip] [/quote]
Nothing personal intended. I believe your comments come from your personal knowledge & experience, that is, from an extremely advanced user; something I DEFINITELY AM NOT!! I'm more 'everyman', the new user, lazy, a dilettante, a non-techie.
In many complex projects I frequently subscribe to the KISS principle. If you don't know what that is, someone will explain it. Sometimes too much information is just that... too much. You are always a great help on this forum; no one disputes that, least of all me so let's not even go there. My only wish is that I knew enough to contribute more to the IQ community.
As Pierre points out & I think we both illustrate, IQ is a tool of many uses. That is its magic & its curse. My POV is that to attract the most people, the program must have the larger, more recognizable, less sophisticated, easier to use elements, i.e. outline, clipping, calendar, syncing to mobile instruments, writing tools, good data search on top of the magic concept known as IQ. After that, well.... the sky's the limit.
However, Pierre, as the developer, must weigh the relative importance of the divergent views of his loyal community as he has done in the past. My wish for him, as I'm sure yours is -- in fact, I'm sure all dedicated IQ users share this -- is for economic success to come to Pierre eventually to repay all his hard work & dedication over these many years. It will be money well earned. A $50 donation every now & again from a relatively few devotees may not cut it forever.
After this post on this subject, I will respect Pierre's summation & not return to this subject unless it is brought up again in another thread.
Finally, I will point to the commercial success of IDImager & its lone developer as a template.
I'd like to close this discussion with this comment...
[/quote]
The meaning of my posts got lost it seems. I don't like to be misrepresented so if you'd allow, I'll just straighten a few facts. Thanks.
[quote=jan_rifkinson]
My POV is that to attract the most people, the program must have the larger, more recognizable, less sophisticated, easier to use elements, i.e. outline, clipping, calendar, syncing to mobile instruments, writing tools, good data search on top of the magic concept known as IQ. After that, well.... the sky's the limit.[/quote]
Jan : If you re-read my words , you'll see that this is exactly what I'm saying. Only, I'm not reaching the same conclusion.
Repeating myself, following your exact same perspective : looking at the forum and user comments, it just doesn't seem to me that HTML pane per se is ultra complicated and turning off users. However, other things are/or seem to be.
The new HTML component was presented as something that will potentially attract/please many users. It's an hypothesis, fine... and yes I'm sure it will attract new users once users won't be turned off by somewhat "deeper" issues. I.e : I'm not so sure that those who abandon IQ after a few days would care that much about the new HTML component and all its fancy features if their problem is that they can't even figure how to show their items in a grid, set recurrence on a task, re-number their list, do a simple search and replace, etc. Maybe, but I doubt it. Hence, that's why I said I didn't feel it should be considered "high priority". Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I guess I wasn't clear (??). I might be an advanced user, but that doesn't mean that I favor geeky & hard to use programs and UIs.
Now... here's the twist. How about me as individual user, not as a collaborator thinking about new users etc.? Ultimately, if the HTML pane is implemented sooner then later, I'll egotistically rejoice and won't care as I'm not the one who'll suffer from filtering and other complexities, but will on the other hand benefit from a more powerful HTML editing component. Yaye !
One concern : editing using MS Word, still possible ?
I find that this is a real advantage. When I'm doing complex text editing, I need something powerful. The ability to work in word instead of the HTML pane is a "plus" for me.
Personally, I don't see a new HTML editor as high priority. Really not. And I use IQ for writing too -- a lot.
Don't get me wrong : I thing it will be an important addition, and I'd welcome it if it happens befor. But... not at the price of pushing back other stuff for months...
1- When I have anything fancy to write, I use MS Word in conjunction to IQ.
I really don't know how could any editor out there could rival with MS Word. Except for the other big ones like OpenOffice.org or TextMaker maybe.
I mean, when I want to edit the HTML pane content I press ctrl-shift-W (my own shortcut, maybe) and in a second or 2, I have the most sophisticated WYSIWYG Word Processor available to edit my text... What more could I ask for ? Plus, i can have several MS Word Windows opened to edit several items' HTML content
Not everybody uses Word. Granted. So would it be possible to link IQ with other Word processors like OpenOffice ? Or TextMaker ? I have the feeling that it should be possible to set that up in the options.
2- Since the HTML pane is actually a bit of a separate entity, I usually write directly in the grid ...
... where I can reorder items, copy them, duplicate them, show them in different contexts, etc. at will.
I worked on 2 theatrical shows (plays) purely using the grid as a text editor. [Edit : the text I co-wrote is probably worth several hundred pages... That's all in the grid]
So where am I going with this 2nd point? Well... basically saying that, in terms of priorities, I'd rather have more editing features built in the grid, and more interrelation features between the HTML pane and the grid rather than having an MS Word duplicate in IQ (I wouldn't mind it though, I'm just not sure it belongs to the list of the top 3 priorities.
Examples of stuff that would really improve user experience :
3- There are still a few very important things to be done in IQ which are much higher priority IMO (and I'm kind of afraid that the implementation of a new HTML editor would push some of these back for months...)
Important problems :
- Performance problems (there's nothing like an app which is fast )
- Various filter problems (date toolbar, and other filter UI things which should make filtering much less complicated for the typical user)
- Hierarchical bugs
- Display inconsistencies when refreshing isn't enough to see changes in config happen in a grid
(+ stuff that will be considered less tangible but which directly affects data : )
- Inheritance problems
- Column equations problems
- Perfect printing
Important Features :
- Find and replace (in the grid)
- Syncing (calendar first, task and other things second),
- Item date recurrence (I have a working system, but I doubt that many users are willing to try to implement it... Even if it works perfectly well... ;) )
- Multiple undo,
- Easy Item (re)numbering,
- Finishing the calendar interface so that it's perfectly usable (color categories etc. aren't usable yet, etc.)
- More complete Grid/Panes position memory (save/load different config) on demand
I'd like to close this discussion with this comment...
From the start, IQ has been many things to many people, each one making and using it to suit their specific needs, which are often very different. IQ can be a 1-pane outliner, a 2-pane outliner and a 1+2-pane outliner, a web capture tool, a PIM, a database, etc.
This is the beauty of this tool, it is also the challenge, that I started exactly 7 years ago.
It is my job to take the feedback from the community and move IQ in the "best" direction.
Before reaching v1.0, a new rich text editor is definitely required, so are a simpler UI, better performance, smartphone sync, etc.
I think what you, IQUsers, want is to see IQ progress, as I hope I've done in the past. Also, as I've done in the past, I do things when "appropriate". And the "appropriate" time, is a combination your ideas and feedback and my inspiration and energy.
With your help, we'll get there !
For now, I'll get a few fixes in and release 0.9.25. The next step IS Google-calendar sync. After that, we'll see...
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