Submitted by Hilary on 2019/12/28 10:09
 I've tried a couple of ways to do this with no success, so I'm hoping that if I just describe what I want to do, someone will be able to tell me a good way to go about it.
 
I would like to sort my database into a tree structure by project, eg
  • membership
    • onboarding
      • Forum use course
        • lesson 1
        • lesson 2
        • etc...
      • Welcome emails
    • retention
      • monthly calls
...etc, for many different projects.
 
And then I would like to mark certain items as to do in a certain month.
 
I'd like to be able to view all items by project, or by month, or by the intersection of both. 
And I'd like to be able to add new items quickly to both a project and a month from the Inbox.
 
If you were setting this up from scratch, how would you go about it?
 
Things I've tried:
 
Multiple parents - one for project, one for time period. This is how I used to do this in UltraRecall: creating items under the project parent, then simply copying some to a second parent representing a time period. This didn't work well in IQ, because it's not possible to view the whole tree in a single grid: I get the warning about too many items, and if I choose any option other than 'cancel', the program tends to crash. So I'm left trying to copy items between grids, which I find very difficult.
 
Tagging to identify projects (only tagging the parent item) and then using a text field to identify the month. I thought I would then be able to use the 'column filter' to display all items with that field set to 'January', Instead I find it only displays items that are visible in the moment of setting the filter; any sub-items that are folded under their parent at the time are excluded from the filter results.
 
Consequently I find myself still reliant on my own memory - if I remember an item exists, I can track it down. But I would like to be able to rely on InfoQube to display these subsets of items for me, including the ones I've forgotten!
 
I would be very grateful for any suggestions!
 
 
 
 
 

Comments

 Hi Hilary,
 
YMMV - here is how I do it with great success. You've just identified what used to be a challenge for me with IQ. Being able to have multiple parents is great, but I personally don't find it practical as an everyday method. Being able to outline is great, but having everything such as a project all under one top level item carries its own set of limitations when you want to see items from those project outline items in other grids and know their context (project). Of course you can always have them display in other grids under the top level items but I find that subpar to say the least.
 
The solution is simple. Never use a top level item for a project (or any other "item container"). Instead use a field and then use fields for grouping. You will need to look at the attached screenshots to see what I am talking about. It works beautifully because now those items show context no matter what grid they are in. No need for multiple parents at all.
 
And if you think about it, since the whole thing about IQ is that grids don't "contain" items, and that items don't have a "place" they belong to (other than based on meeting a filter criteria), this way of doing things actually matches IQ perfectly. Because now you've stopped putting project items in a "place" under a top level holder, so now it is much easier to have those items in 10 different grids, while still always retaining context. See screenshot "IQ" as an example, where I am grouping by the field "initiative" (project). Then look at screenshots iq2 and iq3.
 
Keep in mind you can still outline with my technique to your hearts content. You just never make what you want the items to belong to, i.e. a project etc., the top level item. That you always make a field value from a pick list.
 
Also, I make the pick list values for all the fields I am talking about a "list of pop-up items". Refer to the manual. This means I maintain my list of projects in a grid. See screenshot iq3. This makes it ridiculously easy to add projects on the fly, and you are just selecting your projects for tasks from a pick list for the field column.
 
Hopefully all this makes sense in combination with the screenshots. Let me know if you have any questions. I am sure others will have different suggestions :-).
 
 

Hilary

2019/12/28 12:56

In reply to by David_H

 First question: how do you create a grid with fields, instead of items, as top-level items, and create the view in IQ.jpg? 

David_H

2019/12/28 14:17

In reply to by Hilary

[quote=Hilary]
 First question: how do you create a grid with fields, instead of items, as top-level items, and create the view in IQ.jpg? 
[/quote]
How about I just create a simple example database for you? Then you can study that to see how everything is done and whether my technique would work for you. I'll share it later tonight.
 
I think it would be really useful if people would share their databases, or aspects of them, so other users can get ideas from them. It's easy to take out private info so no reason it cannot be done. Perhaps Pierre can then host them or add them to the sample databases people can create when they download IQ.
 
 
 
 

Hilary

2019/12/28 15:42

In reply to by David_H

 That would be fantastic, thank you.

"I'd like to be able to view all items by project, or by month, or by the intersection of both. And I'd like to be able to add new items quickly to both a project and a month from the Inbox."
 
And all of this becomes ridiculously easy with the method I detailed above.

Here is the same screenshot I included in my first post, with an additional note to make sure it's clear that you are not seeing an outline, rather you are seeing a grouping by field. But again, under that grouping, you can still outline as much as you want for your tasks.

Hilary

2019/12/28 12:50

In reply to by David_H

Thank you, David! I will have a long, slow and careful look at this and see if I can follow.

Very interesting, David. Thanks for sharing!

The old Easy Ecco newsletter had one or more articles on the issue of outlines vs top-line-items.  
 
If anyone's interested I can try to dig out the articles and upload them.  Don't think there'd be a copyright issue.
 
Wayne
 

Hi Hilary,
 
I'll look at your specifics tomorrow, but one thing's for sure. If IQ has all the tools you to manage small and large data sets, the data organisation will not be the same. Data set size, its structure and the desired analysis of it will determine how to best organize it.
specifically, parent -- child links, multi-parent, etc is a better fit for smaller data sets than large ones
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

Hilary

2019/12/28 16:35

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

Hi Pierre,
 
[quote=Pierre_Admin]
Hi Hilary,
 
I'll look at your specifics tomorrow, but one thing's for sure. If IQ has all the tools you to manage small and large data sets, the data organisation will not be the same. Data set size, its structure and the desired analysis of it will determine how to best organize it.
specifically, parent -- child links, multi-parent, etc is a better fit for smaller data sets than large ones
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 
[/quote]
 
What would count as a small/ large data set?

Pierre_Admin

2019/12/28 17:07

In reply to by Hilary

Well, 100 children is a good maximum
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

Hilary

2019/12/28 17:14

In reply to by Pierre_Admin

[quote=Pierre_Admin]
Well, 100 children is a good maximum
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 
[/quote]
Is that per item or per database?
 
Does it include 'grandchildren' (sub-sub-items)?

Pierre_Admin

2019/12/28 18:22

In reply to by Hilary

It's just a ball-park figure, but for each item, 100 sub-items seems to be a max manageable number
(and each sub-item can have 100 sub-sub-items and so on)
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

Here is a copy of the article Wayne was mentioning and it references much of what I am talking about. However IQ is now infinitely more powerful than ECOO was when this article was written and does not have some of the weaknesses that ECCO had. If you look at the articles example of what the author refers to as "outline approach" versus "TLI approach", IQ can offer the best of both of them, which is what I am doing with the grouping method I showed in my screenshot. I get to see as many of my projects as I want in the same grid, and see all my items under a project, as shown in "outline approach" below AND I get all the benefits shown in "TLI approach".
 
Hilary, I did not have the time to put together the sample file and am business tomorrow but I will definitely get it up for you next week.
 
----------------------------------------------------------

Adding Structure through Top Level Items

Adapted from "TLI 101: Adding structure through top-level items," an article in the November 1995 issue of EasyEcco
By Tom Hoots
Most new users of ECCO follow a common path: they make outlines! Because outlines are ECCO's most obvious feature, many new users conclude that ECCO uses an outline approach to information management, so they dive right in and make a bunch of complicated, multi-level outlines.
However, many users soon become frustrated with their outlines, because they can't do some things that they had been able to do in other PIMs, such as sorting tasks by priority. In this tutorial, I'll show you the steps you can take to avoid this kind of frustration.
TLI's in a single view
The picture below shows a simple outline in an ECCO notepad, with a typical Priority column. You might notice that the items under each project have assignments in the Priority column, but they certainly aren't sorted in the priorities to which they have been assigned! ECCO can't sort all the high priority items together, because they are subitems belonging to different parents. So, if you would like a prioritized list of the tasks in this outline, ECCO can't give it to you.
Unless, that is, you reconsider your approach to building your notepad! Here is the principle I found that made ECCO much more powerful for me: Removing structure from outline levels and putting it into columns gives items the freedom to serve in multiple contexts.
To illustrate this principle, take a look at the figure below, which shows the same information, in a slightly different format. Notice how the items are no longer under the "Seattle Project" and "Portland Project" outline levels? They are now top-level items, (or "TLI's," as many ECCO users have come to call them). Notice how the project categorization is now made in a new Project column, rather than the outline levels as in the first figure. Putting the project categorization into that Project column allowed me to sort this view first by Priority, then by Project, with the two keys of ECCO's Sort function.
Both columns in this view are pop-up lists, which sort in the order that the values appear on the lists. Therefore, High priority items sort above Medium priority items, which sort above Low priority items. For the Project column, I decided that the Seattle project was more important than the Portland project. So, by sorting on Priority as key 1, and Project as key 2, I produced a list that shows all of the tasks in proper priority order, with tasks in any priority level assigned to the Seattle project appearing above ones assigned to the Portland project. This is a very simple and effective method of organizing information!
Perhaps, though, you still would like to see the tasks the way they appeared in the first figure, in the context of Projects, rather than Priority. Well... no problem! Simply sort the tasks with Project as key 1, and you might as well go ahead and sort on Priority as key 2. Take a look at the result at the right, which shows a list of tasks sorted together for each project. Also note that, within each project, they are still sorted by priority. So, this list is even better than the outline in the first figure, since it has the added ability to be sorted by priority within projects, unlike that outline.
Now, I guess it takes some time to get comfortable with seeing your structural context in columns, rather than in outline levels. Certainly, there isn't quite the visual distinction you get with outline levels. But once you get used to it, and as you begin to comprehend the advantages to having your structure reside in folders and columns, you may never go back to making outlines again!
TLI's across multiple views
So far, we have only been working with items showing in different contexts within the same notepad. But ECCO becomes much more powerful for you when you start using the same items throughout your file, in different contexts in different views. Let's give our simple ECCO file a bit of a "makeover," and start working within different views.
Here's a new "Seattle Project" notepad. When this project gets complicated with many tasks, it will help to have all of the items showing in one view, separate from all other views. You could create a similar new "Portland Project" notepad.
Here is ECCO's PhoneBook view, with some new columns.
The figure below shows a new "Tasks" notepad, which gathers items from all of the new views: items from the "Seattle Project" view, other items from the "Portland Project" view, and names from the PhoneBook view. Any item from any of those views can be assigned to the "Tasks" view by simply clicking on the "Tasks" column in any view. Thus, the "Tasks" view serves as a "focus" view, which collects the items you may wish to pull out from any view in your file, and handle them "today," or "this week," as you prefer.
You may have noticed several new columns in the last few views. In the Tasks notepad, you'll find a new Projects column, which simply shows whether items originated in the Seattle Project view or in the "Portland Project" view. This is generally referred to as a multifolder column. You will also notice that, while the Priority column appears once again, it has gained two new values: Call and Left Msg. These work with any PhoneBook items you may assign to the Tasks view from the PhoneBook view. Call appears at the top of the Priority list, and Left Msg appears at the bottom. This way, the calls you need to make will sort to the top of the list, and calls for which you are waiting for a reply will sort to the bottom of the list.
You will also notice a new SubProject column. As all of the projects get more complicated with more tasks, it will help to divide them up into sub-categories. So, you'll see SubProject column values for each of the companies involved in the projects, and another value for the Building issues for the projects. I have also added the To-Do's folder to this view as a column. If you need to schedule a task into your ECCO Calendar, you can do it via this column, without leaving your Tasks notepad.
And, finally, you'll notice the Tasks column, even in the Tasks notepad. In the other views around the file, the Tasks column will assign items to the Tasks view. In the Tasks view itself, the column gives you the option to uncheck it for an item, which will make it disappear from the Tasks view, though the item will, of course, remain in the notepad from which it originated.
You will see that all of the other new views include the same columns as the Tasks view -- excepting the Projects column, which is unnecessary in the project views themselves. All of the columns work just as I have already described -- they are the same columns, after all! Each of the two new project views, plus the new Tasks view, may be sorted in a similar fashion to the old TLI Approach view. Now, the sort would usually be with Priority as key 1, and SubProject as key 2. Again, this order could be reversed if you wanted to see things more in order by SubProject.
Finally, here's the weekly ECCO Calendar view, to prove that the items assigned To-Do's dates in the Tasks and Project notepads actually made it into the Calendar.
So: Why TLIs?
I hope you'll agree that the concept of building "structure" into column values, rather than into outline levels, will allow you to build a very powerful ECCO file that will meet your information management requirements. I hope you'll also find that, by using this concept, ECCO can handle even complex situations in a manner that is actually quite easy to use and understand. The key that makes this possible is giving items the freedom to move around as needed, rather than burying them beneath outline levels, from which they cannot be removed.
Outline level structure makes items show in only one context -- but if you place that structure into folders and column values, the items can "take their structure with them" and can easily appear in different contexts and different views. If you make use of this powerful idea, then you are truly using the power of ECCO!

OK, example IQ database uploaded to this message. And a video of me speaking about it here: www.youtube.com/watch
 
It's worth noting that even though in the video I presented the "field method" vs the "TLI method" as though they are mutually exclusive, they actually are not. You could still use an Item as the top level item of the project if you prefer, as long as you still assign the project name to all project items via a field. So as usual with IQ there are many different ways to do it! The key here is simply to use fields to add context to your items such as what project something belongs to, or any other number of values you might want to track.
 
I also use tags a lot. The main difference is fields help me to cut and dice my grids in many different ways. Whereas tags are great for adding all sorts of attributes to items to easily find them later on. I use tags more for things like Internet clippings. I personally don't need them much for things like projects.

BTW I am using the term TLI differently than in the article above, so don't let that confuse you. When I use the term TLI all I mean is using an item to name the project and have that item be the top level item.

HTH

KeithB

2020/01/01 15:03

In reply to by David_H

This sample file is great, as well as the video explanation.
I'll mention (for forum searching purposes!) that the first minute of the video gives a excellent run-down of "home pages", and the sample has a simple nice setup of exactly why you're such a proponent of them. From some recent experimentation, I'm seeing great value in them also, and hope to post something on them soon.(I was elated to find that by double clicking on a home page, you could more quickly cycle between home pages, and not have to use the arrowso each of your home pages.)
 

David_H

2020/01/01 16:19

In reply to by KeithB

Thank you Keith. Look forward to your post.
[quote=KeithB]
I was elated to find that by double clicking on a home page, you could more quickly cycle between home pages, and not have to use the arrows each of your home pages.)
 [/quote]
I just tested based on your comment and I see you can even cycle between as many home pages as you might light to have that way. People should also know the default home page can be turned off in Tools > Options.
 
And as you know Pierre has given us the ability to link to virtually anything - a grid, a page, a tag, a website and more. Using tags on a home page can be useful because it instantly opens a scratch grid with all of whatever tag you click on. No need to go to tags, find the tag you want, right click, and select search. Very handy for any tags you want quick access to.
 

Hilary

2020/01/01 17:19

In reply to by David_H

 Thank you, David! It's incredibly kind of you to go to all that trouble - much appreciated. I wish you complete success with your world domination project.

No, I was referring to David's post
"Then look at screenshots iq2 and iq3"
https://infoqubeim.com/drupal5/index.php/comment/22409#comment-22409

and

https://infoqubeim.com/drupal5/index.php/comment/22411#comment-22411

And there is also supposed to be a sample file attached here.
https://infoqubeim.com/drupal5/index.php/comment/22434#comment-22434
Where is it?

This is a 2 year old post. This website was migrated to a new platform earlier this year. Most content was transferred correctly. It seems this is missing however... 😢

Dave did create a video which explains this quite well: Example - YouTube

HTH !