InfoQube IM - Community

Submitted by jan_rifkinson on 2010/09/13 11:25

I've created a little video that I hope illustrates the problem:

I copied from email grid & wanted to paste as a child under a TLI

but the paste dialog didn't permit me to do that.

I know there are other ways to accomplish this, just saying it's a little weird to me.

I tried describing this in another thread but I don't remember a satisfactory answer

Comments

yes, we discussed that before. The missing option in the dialog would be "Paste under the currently selected item" or something like that.

It would be nice to have a link to the previous discussions as, once again, it was discussed plentifully with UI suggestions, details, etc.

we did have a go at the dialogues in general a couple of times but always got bogged down.

Here's the manual page Item Copy & Paste - Selection - Drag & Drop

And here one thread (not the main one where this discussed). I dont this pasting as subitem was discussed here though.

maybe it's just me -> still find copy / paste confusing

down the bottom there Jan suggests 'paste as Sibling' - I kind of like that one - I never did like the 'paste under current parent' - I still have to think about that one momentarily before I'm ready to choose - I use copy paste of item very little so have never gotten used to it, but I think one shouldnt need to get used to it, hence the dislike...

my take on Jan's request:

Paste as sub-item of selected item

Here's the thread where I made very concrete suggestions to improve the copy/paste dialog (never got feedback from any user) :

paste function not operating correctly (last post)

Edit : BTW, what you suggest, Tom, is similar to what was already suggested and I'm favorable to it. But, have a look at my previous suggestions too, as pasting in IQ is not like pasting in MyBase, Ultra recall, zoot or others -- there are some subtleties.

How about changing the dialog to this :

This is clear isn't it ?

I like it. I'd just detail the "Paste creates new items", as for new users they might wonder... "As opposed to.. what ?"

If, instead, paste does the reverse (always creates new items) and this is specified beside the checkbox :

"Paste creates new links to parents/grids (i.e. : same item will be seen in different locations)"

it's probably less ambiguous. I took 10s to come with the previous formulation so it might not be ideal -- but you get the idea ?

[Edited : 2010 09 14 -- 00 14]

Is this better ?

The clearest and greatest.

Of course, I find the "Link" term not perfectly appropriate, as the item is not a link, but really the same item linked to extra parents. It's the item that's linked, not it self being a link. But I'm ultimately not the one who'll struggle. And I'm not sure what option would be clearer/better anyway.

Select from the following Paste Options:

Paste as NEW item
Paste as LINK to the original item

Insert:

BEFORE the current item
AFTER the current item
As a SUB-ITEM
CANCEL

Hide Details

updating a NEW item will only update that item
updating a copied item will update original & copy

[quote=jan_rifkinson]

Select from the following Paste Options:

Paste as NEW item
Paste as LINK to the original item

Insert:

BEFORE the current item
AFTER the current item
As a SUB-ITEM
CANCEL

Hide Details

updating a NEW item will only update that item
updating a copied item will update original & copy

[/quote]

This is almost the same as Pierre's propsition, except for the details (2 last lines).

Purely experiential description from me as a user : I had to read you 2 last lines 3 times to understand what you meant (i.e. : that if a user decides to update an item after pasting this or that would happen etc.).

So, IMO, these last changes in the details are very confusing. The paste dialog doesn't (and shouldn't) talk about updating anything but pasting / linking stuff. Note also that this "updating a copied item will update original & copy" is misleading because the "Linked item" isn't a copy. It's the same item but seen in different place. Same item = same ID.

IMO, Pierre's last version is still the best, providing he leaves the "Paste as..." at the beginning of each "footnote".

"Paste as New items" will create new items, identical to the copied items.

I guess we could get rid of the footnotes, but at the same time, having foot notes allows to have a more succinct description beside each option. Which is VERY important.

I disagree w your analysis, comments.

I think you are coming to this from the POV of a very experienced & technical user.

I like it EXACTLY as I wrote it.

I don't think it's confusing.

That's my .02

[quote=jan_rifkinson]

I disagree w your analysis, comments.

I think you are coming to this from the POV of a very experienced & technical user.

[/quote]

No problem. But if you re-read my post, you'll see that even the experienced user I'm supposed to be couldn't understand what you wrote.Honnestly. I wouldn't take the time to say it otherwise. I'm always ready to say it if I agree with some suggestion.

Anyway, since I'm so deeply technically perverted, let's see what other more "general" users think. I want the best for IQ, without loosing functionalities.

The same but with an information footer:

Even better.

So I'd keep that. Only thing : I woudn't drop the "Paste as..." but would include it in the details for clarity . E.g. :

Selecting "Paste as New items" will create new items, identical to the copied items

Pierre, that's definitely much much better & clearer

I'm still uncomfortable with the term "Link" as I think it gives a false concept of how IQ works.

Would something like this on top be too complex (it would save having to have the 'footnotes')

Paste as New Items (identical to copied item)
Paste as the Same item (the item will be also shown here)

[quote=Tom]

Pierre, that's definitely much much better & clearer

I'm still uncomfortable with the term "Link" as I think it gives a false concept of how IQ works.

Would something like this on top be too complex (it would save having to have the 'footnotes')

Paste as New Items (identical to copied item)
Paste as the Same item (the item will be also shown here)

[/quote]

I agree entirely.

Pierre,

I know you've said this discussion is closed - but I'm going to post nevertheless (with apologies), cause I want to explain why I think using the word 'Link' is misleading to beginners (not saying I'm right, but I just want to make sure this point is made and leave it at that).

Using the word 'Link' for an item gives the impression that an item has a home, and that this home is where we are copying it from. The reality is that we can remove the item from it's original location and it will still show in it's new location.

(I realise that we are 'linking' to the item itself, but you first have to understand that items exist independently of the grids before you can understand that)

I can understand the temptation to use the term but I think it makes it harder for the beginner to grasp the idea(s) that a grid is only a view, a window, and that the items exist independently of the grids.

Done.

Night ;-)

Pierre, thanks for trying to clarify the dialogs. Since I brought this up but haven't contributed yet I wonder if you could hold off before making any changes until I've had some time to consider the choices you've offered. i want to think about it. Both Tom & Armando have commented but I don't think as fast. I'll get back to you later today if that's ok. Thanks.

No problem... I'm doing my Income Taxes today

[quote=Pierre_Admin]

No problem... I'm doing my Income Taxes today

[/quote]

Good luck!!

I'd like to close this discussion by saying that all strings will be loaded from a language file, so users will be able to customize it

LOL !

Have a great day !

MANTIS 1052,