InfoQube IM - Community

Submitted by Al on 2009/06/08 22:04

I was playing around with the blank template that came with .9.24B and the context and regular hiearachy modes don't seem to work as I would expect.

The item Company ABC shows all sub-items, even though the sub-items do not meet the source criteria of the AddressBook being checked. If I were to check the AddressBook box for Called Company ABC 2 and do a refresh I get what I would expect, Parent Company ABC with only the sub-item Called Company ABC 2 showing. This is what I had to do for the Item Joe Clarkes, I checked the AddressBook for Called Joe Clarkes 2, this item had the same problem, showing all sub-items when not checked. Am I missing something?

Comments

For this grid, the Grid>>Filter criteria applies to sub-items is probably not checked.

The idea is that you may want to see all sub-items (such as calls to a contact). At other times, you really want the display limited to only contacts, hence the need for this setting. In this case, if you want to see all sub-items, do Item>>Show all sub-items

There's also the full hierarchy option to consider... very important. "Show all subitems" is not exactly always appropriate, but full hierarchy ON/OFF is, usually (in terms of filters, etc.)

(There was a slight problem with the full hierarchy on/off option as I mentioned before, at some point... I'll come back to it tomorrow as I need some sleep)

Hi Pierre,

The Grid>>Filter criteria applies to sub-items is checked. I've been reading some of the other posts on Context/Hiearchy and it seems that this Grid is behaving correctly.

www.sqlnotes.net/drupal5/index.php.

Your post;

"Correct. And why should they be any different? Regular hierarchy and Full hierarchy are only different when some sub-items meet the source and other don't. (Full hierachy will show all subs, while regular will show those that meet the source... see Display settings (Context Parents, Regular Hierarchy, Full Hierarchy))"

But why would I want regular Hierarchy to behave this way, it doesn't make sense to me? With regular Hierarchy I would not expect to see these sub-itmes.

- Called Company ABC 1

- Called Company ABC 2

- Called again

I would only see these sub items when in full Hierarchy. Do you have an example of how this behavior would come in handy.

I couldn't find the Save Item Sates option you referenced in the post, where is that located and what does it do?

"Here is where the setting "Save Item states" comes in to confuse thing a bit. The last 2 subs in your screenshot should not be displayed initially (close them, they won't show up on a refresh)."

OK, got it this time. The menu says: "Filter criteria applies to sub-items" and what is you filter? Filter is off (the filter is the middle text box on the source bar)

If you want to filter those items, you can set the filter to AdressBook

My question is more general concerning regular and full hierarchy. As stated earlier it looks like the screenshot I sent you is the correct operaton. Why would you want regualr hierarchy to operate this way? Showing sub-items, when none of the sub-items are checkmarked, yet if I checkmark one of the sub-items the other two sub-items will no longer display?

Regular hierarchy mode

(no sub-item checkmarked)

Company ABC

- Called Company ABC 1
- Called Company ABC 2
- Called again

Regular hierarchy mode

(with Called Company ABC 1 checkmarked)

Company ABC

- Called Company ABC 1

What is the Save Item Sates option you referenced in the post, where is that located and what does it do?

Regular hierarchy re-arranges items (as compared to no hierarchy) to place items that are subs, places these under their parent. In your example, sub-items do not belong to the grid, so this is not the case
Another parameter affecting display is Grid>>Save item states. If an item is opened (i.e. expanded), the grid remembers that and opens it automatically, the next time around. This is what we're seeing here. Compaby ABC is being expanded to show subs.

If a sub-item of Company ABC is checked with AdressBook, then (1) above would apply. To see all subs, do Item>>Show all subs

I've updated 1. Grid Display Modes to make it clearer. I hope this helps. You may not see a use for a display setting until you need it, and then you'll be glad that it is possible!

I think I understand the context/hierarchy options in general and they are indeed very powerful, that is why I'm trying to fully take advantage of them. I still don't get why all three sub-items show in regular hierarchy unless one of the sub-items is checked. But if that is the way it works, I'll just accept it, even though I can't explain it.

Still playing around with the sample file, can you explain what is going on with this behavior?

Context only selected. Checkmark Called Company ABC 1, Called Company ABC 2, I get what I would expect.

Context only selected. Called Company ABC 2 and Called again checkmarked, I would expect to see three Company ABC parents as in previous figure. I would expect to see Called Company ABC 1, Called Company ABC 2 and Called again under the Company ABC parent? Why do I only see Called again?

Okay I think I get why the sub-items for Company ABC are shown in Regular hierarchy. Since Company ABC has Addressbook checkmarked it is shown and since we are forcing the Company ABC tree to be open with "Save item states" we see the unchecked sub-items.

But isn't this a bug? It works correctly if one sub-item matches, only shows the one sub-item. So if no sub-items are selected only the Parent should be shown?

[quote=laguna92651]

But isn't this a bug? It works correctly if one sub-item matches, only shows the one sub-item. So if no sub-items are selected only the Parent should be shown?

[/quote]

No this isn't a bug. If an item has subs, the purpose of the expand button is exactly that, to show the subs. Sometimes you care to see only relevant subs, but most times, when I see an item and expand it, I want to see all subs, whether related to the current grid or not.

We can chat about this (it's been a while since the last time) if you want. Often, it is much easier to explain things on the phone, than in writing...

But it doesn't seem consistent. If I have only one sub-item that matches the criteria and I close and expand the sub-items I won't get everything only the ne sub that matches. Expanding isn't a Show all sub-items, is it. If I want to see all subs I would use Full hierarchy. But I don't want to beat this to death, because I know you have plenty of other stuff to do. I'll just go with the current operation.

Any feedback on the other question concerning the Context operation?

>I close and expand the sub-items I won't get everything only the ne sub that matches

This is correct. You need to use Item>>Show all sub-items to see all sub-items, or look into the Properties pane

>Any feedback on the other question concerning the Context operation?

I've re-read this thread and am not sure what you're referring to... Can you remind me?

There are a few problems described here.

Some have been described and discussed in the past. Some of IQ behaviour is legitimate and coherent, while at least one is IMO weird.

Let's start by clarifying 2 general points :

1- (quote) > Regular hierarchy and Full hierarchy are only different when some sub-items meet the source and other don't. (Full hierachy will show all subs, while regular will show those that meet the source... see Display settings (Context Parents, Regular Hierarchy, Full Hierarchy))"

That one has been clarified in the manual. Full hierarchy does NOT show ALL subs, but only the one that meet the source AND the filters. If an item meets the source but not the various filters, it will not show.
Only the punctual (won't resist a refresh...) "show all sub items" function will do that

2- About "Context parents" : they will only be contextually appropriate if they are indeed the main parents of the items that one wants to "put in context" (ie : have their parent shown). (Note that if the expected parents are in fact not the main parents -- see the manual : each subitem has a main parent -- , they'll rather, well, recontextalize items in ways that are not always helpful. But that's ok, I guess... Not always to my liking though...)

Now a few answers to some of the more specific questions :

3- "Regular hierarchy" vs "Full hierarchy"

Both are handy. I often use "full hierarchy" because I want to see everything (...that fits the grid filter ) under an item. But I do use the normal hierarchy mode when I only want to see only items meeting the source (e.g. : in the adress book : see only the contats, and not all the notes about phone calls, appointments, etc.) . However, I do have other ways of using the source fields which make Full hierarchy more useful to me than the "normal" mode

4- > I couldn't find the Save Item Sates option you referenced in the post, where is that located and what does it do?

"Save item states" does one simple thing : "remember" the visual state of the grid between refreshes. That's all. So if a hierarchical branch is expended, it will remain expended after a refresh... and not collapse each time.

Now, about the weird IQ behavior (mentioned above) which, I find, has never been addressed completely :

5- > as stated earlier it looks like the screenshot I sent you is the correct operaton. Why would you want regualr hierarchy to operate this way? Showing sub-items, when none of the sub-items are checkmarked, yet if I checkmark one of the sub-items the other two sub-items will no longer display?

I don't understand that behavior either. And I asked at least two times but never got a satisfying answer... :)

Maybe because Pierre thought I speaking about something else.

So, again... Pierre : why, under "normal hierarchy" mode, will items NOT meeting the source appear as sub items (even if they shouldn't... according to the "definition), **until one of them is checked**, and then all will disappear... except the one meeting the source (and then things start to happen as they should...) ?? IMO items not meeting the source should never show when "normal hierarchy" is used, even if none of them is meeting the source. Why would they ?

(just for the record : I understand what "full hierarchy" etc. is all about. The only thing I don't get is the behaviour I just described.)

1. This is the information without Context or Hierarchy selected.

Addressbook

Company ABC                                              x
- Called Company ABC 1                           x
- Called Company ABC 2                           x
- Called again

With Context only selected and Called Company ABC 1 and Called Company ABC 2 checked, I get the following view

                                                             Addressbook
Company ABC                                              x
- Called Company ABC 1                           x

Company ABC x

- Called Company ABC 2 x

Company ABC                                              x
- Called Company ABC 1                           x
- Called Company ABC 2                           x
- Called again

2. This is the information without Context or Hierarchy selected. This time I unchecked Called Company ABC 1 and checked Called Company ABC 2 and Called again.

Addressbook

Company ABC                                              x
- Called Company ABC 1
- Called Company ABC 2                           x
- Called again                                               x

With Context only selected and Called Company ABC 2 and Called again checked, I get the following view, I would expect to get three instances of the parent Company ABC as in 1. With the third instance showing all three sub-items as in 1. All I did was uncheck Called Company ABC 1 and checked Called again.

                                                             Addressbook
Company ABC                                              x
- Called Company ABC 2                           x

Company ABC x
- Called again x

It would be better with screenshots. In any cases, the "context parents" behaviour seems pretty logical to me (ie : I don't think that there's a problem with the context parents option.)

One things you should take into account : if hierarchy is not selected and you expend an item that's got sub items, you'll see all sub items (well... except the one which are NOT meeting the filter) because this is not per se a hierarchical view... it is actually a flat view of all items meeting the source, with the possibility of expanding items to see what subitmes they got.

What your examples don't show -- and this is misleading as it hides part of what's truly displayed -- is that the grid also displays the apparent sub items (called company ABC 1, etc.) with addressbook checked as top level items (ie : hey are NOT just shown as sub items of company ABC._

in your last example :

>With Context only selected and Called Company ABC 2 and Called again checked, I get the following view, I would expect to get three instances of the parent Company ABC as in 1.

Actually, there is no reason why you'd get three instances of the parent Company ABC since :

1- You're not in any hierachical mode and so items meeting the source are all shown as top level items, and your "Called Company ABC 1" doesn't. Look at your grid and you'll see no "Called Company ABC 1" as top level item when hierarchy is off, context is off, and all items are collapsed (no sub items are shown).

2- hence, only items meeting the source are put in context : "Called again" and " Called Company ABC 2 ". Only these two are put in context.

Is that clearer ?

(However, I still don't understand the behaviour I described earlier... Pierre ?)

IQ has only Context on. Called XYZ 2 has AddressBook checked. I get 2 instances of Company ABC. When sub-items Called XYZ 1, 2 or 4 are checked by themselves, I get the same display format.

Fig 1

If I only check Called XYZ 3, I only get one instance of Company ABC. This Grid is from the blankTemplate file, if you want to check it out. I edited the sub-item name from "Called again," to "Called XYZ 3" (I also added Called XYZ 4 to see if it behave okay, it did). As far as I can tell Called XYZ 1, 2, 3 & 4 are identical sub-items.

Fig 2

I don't understand... sorry...

When you say "IQ has only Context on", does this mean : no "hierarchy mode", no "save item state", etc. : Nothing else is on ?

Also, from your screenshots, unless you changed the blue color for context parents, I don't see any context parents... It would make it clearer to see which items are context parents, and which ones are not.

Also did you read the explanations from my previous posts ?

I've read your stuff and quite a few other posts on context and hierarchy, and feel I have a fairly good understanding of them. Context is on, hierarchy is off and "save item state" is on (I tired on and off, it made no difference). In fig 1 the first "Company ABC" is the context parent (BLUE).

Company ABC has 4 sub-items, 3 of the 4 produce the same display when each is selected (checkmark AddressBook) individually, with "Context on", "Hierarchy off" and "save item state on", the fig 1 display. The other sub-item "Called XYZ 3" produces the fig 2 display. I would expect all 4 sub-items to look the same (as in fig1), with the same options selected.

You should be able to replicate the problem if you open the "blankTemplate" file that comes with the install zip. In that case the problem sub-item is "Call again" under Company ABC. Does this explain it any better?

Rewinding the thread hierarchy (!), I'm proposing a change to the display settings. In bold, are changes from the current:

Flat (hierarchy off): All items meeting the criteria are displayed in the defined sort order. If items have subs (whether these meet the grid criteria or not is irrelevant), an expand button will be added. If Restore item state is checked, items automatically get expanded to restore the grid as it was when it was closed
Hierarchy (Full hierarchy off). All items meeting the criteria are loaded. Items are then rearranged to put subs under their parent. No other items (i.e. other subs) are added. Sub-items not part of the grid are hidden (only shown in the properties pane). Grid>>Save item state has no effect (i.e. disabled). Use Item>>Show all sub-items (or a double-click on the expand button/ecco bullet) to show all sub-items.
Full hierarchy. All items meeting the criteria are loaded. Items are then rearranged to put subs under their parent. All items except main items (i.e. TLI) are removed. If Grid>>Save item state is checked, items are expanded to restore the grid to how it was when closed.

The main reason for the proposed changes to the regular hierarchy is that the sub-items displayed were not the same when

none met the grid criteria, from when
one or more of these met the grid criteria

And this causes great confusion.

n.b. The behaviour of Grid>>Context parents is unchanged. From the above list of items, this feature will add the immediate context parent to each item, or groups of item.

n.b. There is still a display bug in the hierarchy: If the immediate parent is not in the grid, that item will not be moved under a grand-parent or great-grand-parent. Items only see their immediate parent. This will eventually be fixed, along with the display of more than 1 level of context parents.

Questions? Comments?

Seems very good to me Pierre.

2 things I'd consider in addition :

1- one thing that worries me is : the deactivation of "save item state" for normal hierarchy. That means that everytime one would refresh the grid, everything would be back to the grid's orginal state ? If that's the case : Not very convenient when one is working with a specific set of items, etc.

2- to this set of changes I'd add : to "reset" the grid (as if there was no "save item state") when "flat mode" is activated. Then, if save item state is selected, it would be effective for subsequent refreshes. (In fact, to be really honest, I think I'd like to have "save item state" deactivated for the flat mode as I believe -- as I told you already -- that the persistent presence of hierarchies in "flat mode" view can cause great confusion... It's a flat mode, not a hierarchical mode, after all... it's good to be able to expand items, but think that these expansions should be temporary, like when one uses the "show all items" option. That'd be much more coherent with the idea of "hierarchy off"/ "hierarchy ON")

n.b. : >There is still a display bug in the hierarchy

I believe there are two instances which are problematic -- i entered them in mantis a while ago.

When will the new behaviors be incorporated? This has probably already been suggested and is probably in your roadmap somewhere. The hierarchy mode should be easier to use. Some sort of tri-state button; Off, Regular & Full. If it is one button, the face of the button needs to change to clearly show the mode, right now I'm constantly having to click on the arrow to check which hierarchy mode I'm in. Or three radio like buttons to select. Context/hierarchy is one of the most powerful features of InfoQube, for wide acceptance for new users its operation needs to be transparent to them. Ideally, there should be a button(s) that is pre-configured for all of the possible combinations of context/hierarchy/any other mode, for use.This is particulary important for the Address Book, even include in the pre-configured button allowing the user to pre-select the Source criteria at setup, e.g.

Address Book mode; source=AddressBook field, context=off, hierarchy=off

Calls in address book; source = Calls, context=on, hierarchy=off

Task in address book; source=Tasks context=on, hierarchy=off (could of course select Regualr hierarchy while using if wanted to group by company)

1. When you say and expand button, do you mean Expand All items, if not I would like to see a Expand All/Collapse All button. Is the Restore item state new?

2. When you say "Use Item>>Show all sub-items (or a double-click on the expand button/ecco bullet) to show all sub-items." Do you mean if a parent has no matching sub-items when you use the expand button it acts like "Show all sub-items" What if there is one sub-item and you double-click on the expand button, you collapse, then when you expand again you see all items?