Submitted by cicerosc on 2018/04/17 16:54
Pierre -  Over on the Outliner forum you asked for some comments.  I don't think what I have typed below is appropriate over there, so am tying them in full here.  I do hate to sound like a complainer but maybe these will be of some use to you.  Good luck with your program:
 
 
 
For purposes of this test I downloaded the latest version to start from scratch.
 
I start the program and immediately see some type of mostly blank "home page" that has nothing to do with outlining as far as I can tell.  Because of years of playing with this I know that your outlines have something to do with "Grids" which I would never be able to expect my secretary or anyone else to understand without training.
 
Because I know I need to go to a grid to start an outline, I look for how to start a new Grid.  The references on the "home page" to grids are of no help.  There does not appear to be an icon that looks like an outline. There is no "new Grid" under the file command where I would expect it.  
 
Looking blindly through the icons I see that the third has a dropdown that says "new grid."  It then asks me for a name.  I don't want to give it a name, i just want to type an outline, but ok, I give it one.
 
This opens a pane with alternative stripes which seems workable, but first let me look at the main controls again.  There is a list of F1-F12 keys that looks very old-school to me and I have no use for.  I close it by right clicking - that seems OK.  
 
Now I have three panes, with the one on the right appearing to have no obvious use to an outline.  I close it.
 
Now I have two panes, with the one on the bottom being pretty clearly a pane for editing a long document to be associated with each item.  Good. That is what I want, but I don't want it on the bottom, I want it on the right side, since the focus of my work is the outline on the left.  I click and try to move it and put it in position, but it won't go.  There are some very weird guideicons that pop up instead, nothing like I've ever seen before, but I eventually figure it out and drop it on the right side.  Good.
 
Now reviewing the icon list for main controls, I have, left to right:
 
Calendar.  Nothing to do with outlining.  I drag and drop it off.  
Surface.  Nothing to do with outlining.  I drag and drop it off.
 
Many of the next icons seem relevant so I leave them.  I come to some unusually labeled "column" icons, but i see no columns nor any way to quickly add them.  But I leave the icons because I want to use columns like Ecco.
 
Gannt Chart Icon - nothing to do with outlining, I delete it.
 
I now have a set of icons having something to do with outlining.
 
I close the "home page" tab because I see no possible use for that.
 
I type "this is my first item" on line one.  I press return, and it goes to line 2 - fine.
I type "this is my second item" on line two.  I hit tab to ident it under the first, as I would expect.  Nothing happens!! but the highlighting box shifts back and forth uselessly.  I look for a command to indent on the icons, I see none.  
 
I drop down the "item" menu, after looking at the others, and i see insert, move, split, join - commands I would expect to see on the main icon list.  So yes they are there, but how do I get them where I want them for constant use?  
 
I look for an outlining toolbar.  I see none.  OK I will have to drag andd drop and create my own.  A pain, but I can certainly do it.  OK done, but I really expect to be able to use tab and shift-tab to move items back and forth.   I look for Options and don't find it under the Edit menu, but do find it under tools.  I open that and get a HUGE list of options.  More is generally good, but in this case all I want to do is type an outline!  
 
But I read through the long list and finally find "use tab key to indent / outdent" and I click that.  I then see both "ok" and "apply" (???)  But I perserve.
 
OK that works.  But my outline is as plain as can be.  I presume I have to play with "styles" to adjust icons, lines, fonts, etc.    Under GRID menu (not where I would expect to find it), I see reference to Outline Styles.  I click Styles, and what happens?  Do I pop up a menu with fonts, lines, icons, etc?  No! My outline goes away, I am presented with a new "Scratch" tab, and apparently a new GRID?  WHAT?  I am totally lost and beyond frustrated.  I quit!
 
And the only reason I got this far is because I have followed development of the program for years, I am a longtime Ecco user and can intuit the expected functions.  Can I possibly ask my secretary or paralegal to do this -- No.
 
So I will forget about styles and just be happy I can type a basic outline.
 
I type a couple of lines more and decide I am finished and will worry about icons or numbering some other time.  I decide I want to copy and paste this to an email, so I start to block highlight the outline.
 
WHAT? Block highlighting doesn't work like most programs?  I am dragging and dropping a rectangle?  What gives with that?
 
I give up for today and save and close the program.
 
I open it up again, and it doesn't open to where I was.  It offers the last file, however, so I open that. WHAT?  I come back that darned HOME PAGE I want nothing to do with!  And my toolbars are not preserved - half are missing!  I panic and want to close the program, but I close the HOME tab instead.
 
Now my poor ugly starter outline is there, and the icons I set have returned?!!!  Great, but what's up with that?  Why weren't they there before!?
 
I still want to change the font of the outline.  I block one line (since I can't figure how to block two lines)  I open the Edit menu - no reference to fonts - VIEW menu - no reference to fonts - WHAT?  no Fonts menu anywhere????
 
I quit for the day!!!
 
 
 
 
 

Comments

Hi !
 
This is great feedback. I'll look into each point and come back
 
Have a great day !
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

Jon

2018/04/18 08:37

Permalink

 Pierre, while I understand the criticism about the complexity of IQ, I do not agree. Yes, there is an investment in learning the program (any program actually), but the payoff is well worth the time. However, I also understand that it is good to capture users who would otherwise be turned away because of the hurdles. A larger base is better for you. I have some suggestions that I am sure you have already considered, but just in case...
 
In order of complexity (easier to implement to more difficult):
 
1. Instead of one ini profile in the user folder, create three. All would be customizable but basically they would be beginner, intermediate and advanced. On first time start up the user would be given a choice. This could be changed later in the Options menu.
 
2. Sell two versions of IQ. The basic version would cover outlining needs. The other version would be what we have now.
 
Jon
 
--
Sony Vaio Z, Intel Core i7, 8 GB RAM, 800 GB SSD
Windows 7 Professional 64 bit

Hi cicerosc !
 
New users will now be see this when they open InfoQube for the first time. Much much more like what an outliner should look like !
  1. Opens up the Welcome IQBase
  2. Set of tabs opened at the top
  3. New Tab button (+) on the right (to open / create grids)
  4. HTML pane on the right
 
 
More to come too
 
HTH !
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

cicerosc

2018/04/18 09:46

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 Thank you Pierre I think that is already a great improvement and much more friendly-looking.  The commentator on the outlinersoftware forum who said he could not even figure out to get started would already be amazed at the difference.
 
The comment made to the effect of different beginner and advanced profiles makes sense too.
 
What I think is still missing would include a toolbar for the major outlining functions - manipulating the nodes up down left right splitting joining etc, but more than that, placing the formatting toolbar for the OUTLINE closer to the outline rather than have it off to the right along the top as if it is an afterthought to the outline pane.  As it is the formatting for the pane to the right is actually closer to the outline than is the outline's own formatting toolbar.  (In fact I didn't even realize it was there til just now.)
 
Also in my comments I did not mean to de-emphasize columns.  I do not see an easy and intuitive button for adding columns to the outline that I would expect to see at the top of the outline pane itself.  I see those FILTER commands, but the beginning user won't see way to ADD the columns in the first place without some kind of button in proximity to the top right of the outline pane. 
 
The other comment that comes to mind as I type this is the block select.  Is it possible to set that so the selections function like a word processor and you can block different lines (and parts of lines) in one swoop (as in Ecco or any other word processor)?  The rectangular selection box is VERY disconcerting to me as I would think it would be to anyone from an outliner/word processor background.  

cicerosc

2018/04/18 10:23

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 Another question, after focusing on the "Welcome" text:
 
It's immediately obvious in the new format that Infoqube can act as a rich-text outliner, and has an HTML pane.  excellent.  
 
As per my prior comment it would be nice to see an easy (icon button at top right of outline) way to add a column, with perhaps one column present as an example. That would then highlight that the column feature is easily available.
 
What I can't remember as I write this is the extent to which hyperlinking is available.  I presume that is available in the HTML pane - is it also available in the Outline?  Can a word in an outline be hyperlinked to take one to another point in the outline?  To a point in the HTML pane?  I should probably remember the answer to that, but to the extent that hyperlinks are available in the main rich-text outline pane, that is a HUGE feature amd advantage over other outliners, and would be great to highlight in the Welcome screen so that people know it is there.
 
 
{I realize in asking this that the ability to hyperlink within the outline, to another point in the outline, would require some kind of "bookmarking" or "anchoring" feature by which to set the destination point.  I can't remember if that is there within infoqube, but I gather with its flexibility that almost anything is possible, so I thought it was worth asking}

I added an Item commands toolbar, containing some of the most used commands. The formatting toolbar and this new one are shown here on the left of the window. They could just as easily be on top. Drag-drop to move.
 
New users will appreciate this new toolbar, but experienced users will probably prefer the keyboard shortcuts. Right-click on any toolbar and uncheck it to close it (or drag it floating and close it)
 
 
 
 
Or one can hide the Standard toolbar and show these on top, for a "cleaner" look, as in this screenshot:
 
 
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

cicerosc

2018/04/18 11:24

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 Those are further excellent additions - thanks!
 
1 - Is it going to be possible to have a show/hide/add button for columns that works without an overwhelming number of options?  (to repeat, I am all in favor of options, and never want to see the numbers reduced, but if someone wants to add a "Date" or a "Priority" or a "Category" column, for example, it ought to be relatively straightforward to do without a huge number of intimidating sub-options.)
 
2 - Is there a button or obvious place to set outline formatting / numbering styles for levels of the outline?  
 
3 - Is it possible to hyperlink within and between items in the main outline?  (I see that in your example the HTML pane says ID=1656 so I presume it is possible to set a hyperlink in some other section of the outline to go to ID=1656?  Is there an easy way to discover and add to a hyperlink that the line entitled "Introduction to Infoqube" is item 1656?)  If so I repeat I think that hyperlinking in the rich-text outline is a huge feature that few if any seem to have, and which Ecco can only approximate through the relatively complex/unintuitive bookmarking features of the extension.

Pierre_Admin

2018/04/18 11:35

Permalink

[quote=cicerosc]
1 - Is it going to be possible to have a show/hide/add button for columns that works without an overwhelming number of options?  (to repeat, I am all in favor of options, and never want to see the numbers reduced, but if someone wants to add a "Date" or a "Priority" or a "Category" column, for example, it ought to be relatively straightforward to do without a huge number of intimidating sub-options.)
 
2 - Is there a button or obvious place to set outline formatting / numbering styles for levels of the outline?  
 
3 - Is it possible to hyperlink within and between items in the main outline?  (I see that in your example the HTML pane says ID=1656 so I presume it is possible to set a hyperlink in some other section of the outline to go to ID=1656?  Is there an easy way to discover and add to a hyperlink that the line entitled "Introduction to Infoqube" is item 1656?)  If so I repeat I think that hyperlinking in the rich-text outline is a huge feature that few if any seem to have, and which Ecco can only approximate through the relatively complex/unintuitive bookmarking features of the extension.
[/quote]
  1. The Column > Add / Remove Column (or right-click) is what you want. What I need to add is a button to add create a new field (i.e. column) [Edit] Done ! [/Edit]
  2. Yes, There are outlining styles and labels for each grid. See 3. Outline Styles and 2. Outline Labels
  3. Hyperlinks can point to any other item. If the item is visible in the current grid, focus is moved to that item. Otherwise, the item is shown in its Home. See Hyperlinks  and Item Home
HTH !
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

cicerosc

2018/04/18 13:03

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 I really appreciate the efforts Pierre!
 
I don't see that you commented on this one so I will mention it to be sure it doesn't get overlooked:

The other comment that comes to mind as I type this is the block select.  Is it possible to set that so the selections function like a word processor and you can block different lines (and parts of lines) in one swoop (as in Ecco or any other word processor)?  The rectangular selection box is very disconcerting to me as I would think it would be to anyone from an outliner/word processor background. 
 
 
ALSO:  i note in several of the graphics that you are using "full line select" to display which line is highlighted.  Probably not a big issue, but in the interest of appealing to the most potential users, that seems a little nonstandard too - is it possible to turn that off?

cicerosc

2018/04/18 15:24

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 I can't re-paste the graphic into this message but I want to emphasize that the two-pane view you've pictured above, with formatting / outlining icons down the left side, and formatting icons down the center for the HTML pane, present an immediately-recognizable format that will warm the heart of almost anyone familiar with any outlining program.  I don't mean to suggest that the multi-pane graphic on your home page showing every feature of the program at once should be eliminated, but perhaps supplemented with a graphic like this one which helps a new user grasp some immediate uses for the program.
 
Also, I realize that the toolbars are customizable and reorganizable by drag and drop, so we can all set them to our preferences.  As defaults though, if you are looking for "ease of use" make customers feel at home, you might want to consider that the first  thing an outliner would probably do is to grab those part of the top icons that pertain to outlining and drag them down over the row of grid tabs, especially so that such functions as those relating to columns (which appears to be almost half of them in your example) are nearby to the columns themselves).
 
I also do think there's significant possibility of confusion due to the full row select you've got in the example.  Someone new will probably not immediately grasp whether your selection is on the "Introduction to Infoqube" line or on the "and item back color" line   And if they don't realize the connection between the two, they might think you have two independent and unrelated panes.  Shouldn't be a problem with an intelligent user, but....
 
If you were to post on the outliner forum a graphic example very close to the one you've produced above, with the addition of a simple column example in place, I would be very surprised if you didn't get a gasp of amazement from a significant number who wouldn't realize that this is the same program they've heard about in the past.  (of course, bummer, can't post graphics there...)
 
 
 
 

I wondered what the row of function keys were doing on a toolbar, they seem to serve no useful purpose.
 
I think Surface and Calendar are useful, but maybe not if you only want to do outlines, and I recognise the toolkit you are using for the window pane arrangement so I had no problem with the 'wierd guideicons'.
 
But I would agree that many of the most commonly used commands are buried deeply in submenus or in context menus or in places which are not intuitively obvious which require the new user to search for them.  The more new users who quit before getting into the program the more users you don't get.
 
Perhaps it might be worthwhile to think about what people will typically be doing with the program and what commands they will be using most often and make the more frequently used commands more prominent and the commands which one uses just once in a while less prominent.
 

Pierre_Admin

2018/04/18 14:32

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[quote=Paul_J_Miller]
I wondered what the row of function keys were doing on a toolbar, they seem to serve no useful purpose.
 I think Surface and Calendar are useful, but maybe not if you only want to do outlines, and I recognise the toolkit you are using for the window pane arrangement so I had no problem with the 'wierd guideicons'.
[/quote]
Yeah, I should have hidden the Fn keys toolbar by default. It is for PC without Fn keys... like Lenovo Miix 700 (which I own and like very much, except for that)
 
The pane manipulation icons are from our friends at Microsoft... It is really convenient though, once getting used to it
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

In v108:
  • New: Grid: Add Column command: Button to create New Fields (on the fly, without going to the Field Properties dialog)
So to add a new column, one can now simply right-click on the column header > Add Column > New Text/Date/Number/YN Field, enter a name and voilà !
 
HTH !
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

cicerosc

2018/04/19 21:26

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 Pierre do you know when you expect to release the  next version?  I will keep checking back but I don't seem to get notifications

Pierre_Admin

2018/04/19 21:40

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Hi cicerosc,
 
I'm closing up on the Repeating events sync back to Google. It is the last bit in this v108, which has taken 3 times longer to complete than planned...
But then again, it contains 5 times more things in it than planned, so it's not so bad after all 
 
So, tomorrow, I hope 
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer
 

 Thanks for all your work Pierre!  Really looking forward to the next release!

Even if the OP says "from an Outliner's perspective", and even if Pierre posts at Outliner Software's forum, it might be important to clearly state that InfoQube *isn't* just an outliner. The main page clearly says : "information management system" (or solution). That's what it is.
 
It's a very sophisticated "front end" to a database (it's also a way of structuring a database, but I won't go into that as users don't have any direct access to what happens under the hood). It's a "front end" that allows users to view and organize data in many ways. That freedom and flexibility is what makes IQ great. Outlining is just one part of what it is – an important part, but not as essential as items, fields, grids, filters (you need to get to your items), and sorting (you need to display them in a certain order). 
 
If one wants an outliner, IQ will definitely fit the bill (as Jon nicely explained at Outliner's Software, for ex.), but if one wants something that's *just* an outliner, then it will obviously be problematic -- as... IQ isn't just an outliner.
 
There's currently no other piece of software on the planet that would allow me to do what I can do with IQ, Not even the other big players like Ultra Recall...
 
That said, from a new user's perspective, the recent tweaks are certainly for the best! 
 

Pierre_Admin

2018/05/02 21:12

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Hi Armando,
 
Perfect description of what IQ really is. Thanks !
 
I'm hoping the usability improvements in v108 will really help new users (and why not, experienced users like you)
 
Pierre_Admin
IQ Designer